Neocatechumenal Rite approved? Let us call it the New Liturgical Way

From Rorate Caeli:

Pope Benedict XVI, in his meeting this morning with thousands of members of the Neocatechumenal Way, made public the decree of approval of the liturgical particularities of that group:

A moment ago, the Decree was read with the approval of the celebrations present in the “Catechetical Directory of the Neocatechumenal Way”, which are not strictly liturgical, but are part of the itinerary of growth in the faith. It is another element that shows to you how the Church follows you with attention in a pacient discernment, that she understands your richness, but also takes care for communion and harmony in the whole Corpus Ecclesiae.

The Pope then made references to his views on the liturgy as part of the life of the Church:

The celebration in the small communities, regulated by the Liturgical Books, that are to be followed faithfully, and with the specificities approved in the Statutes of the Way, has the goal of helping those who walk on the neocatechumenal itinerary realize the grace of being inserted in the salvific mystery of Christ, who makes possible a Christian testimony capable of also assuming signs of radicalness.”

A “Third Form” of the Roman Rite?

[Update 1400 GMT] The Vatican Information Service [VIS] has the main text of the approval decree:

APPROVAL FOR CELEBRATIONS OF NEO-CATECHUMENAL WAY

VATICAN CITY, 20 JAN 2012 (VIS) – The Pontifical Council for the Laity today published a decree approving the celebrations contained in the Catechetical Directory of the Neo-Catechumenal Way. The decree is dated 8 January, Feast of the Baptism of the Lord, and bears the signatures of Cardinal Stanislaw Rylko and Bishop Josef Clemens, respectively president and secretary of the council.

The text published today reads: “By a decree of 11 May 2008 the Pontifical Council for the Laity gave definitive approval to the Statutes of the Neo-Catechumenal Way. Subsequently, following due consultation with the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, by a decree of 26 December 2010, the council gave approval to the publication of the Catechetical Directory as a valid and binding instrument for the catechesis of the Neo-Catechumenal Way.

“Now, pursuant to articles 131 and 133 paragraphs 1 and 2 of the Apostolic Constitution ‘Pastor Bonus’ on the Roman Curia, the Pontifical Council forthe Laity, having received the ‘nulla osta’ of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, grants approval to those celebrations contained in the Catechetical Directory of the Neo-Catechumenal Way which are not, by their nature, already regulated by the liturgical books of the Church”.

 

Editorial Note [1500 GMT]: Some have wished to say that it is not exactly an approval, that it is not an actual liturgical rite, that only the several “phases” or “steps” of the “Way” itself have been approved – which is true, even though the Holy Father himself also mentions the “specificities” of the liturgical rites when in “small groups”, with papal praise and confirmation of the full 2008 approval of the liturgical practices foreseen in the Statutes. Fine, let us not call it a new liturgical rite, then – but only a “New Liturgical Way“…

What we think, what we consider right, even what is in mere speeches… all this is irrelevant: as in all post-Conciliar radical experiments, they merely wanted a seal of approval, even if the approval is not, in law, complete and wide; and, with this seal of approval, first in 2008, now supremely approved in all details in 2012, everything is possible for the Way. The Neocatechumenal Way is at last out of the box; who will put them back inside?

 

(The title and text of this post have been amended on Rorate Caeli and those changes have now also been reflected here.)

Click here for Father Z’s observations.

 

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39 Responses to Neocatechumenal Rite approved? Let us call it the New Liturgical Way

  1. pablo says:

    Carmen and saint Kiko the Great have already approved this.

    Why do Novus Ordo heretics need Papal approval?

    She wore an Adidas shirt (all day I dream about sex) in one meeting with the Holy Father.

    Has she ordered the little men to sew vestments with this logo for use at her ‘Mass’?

    If you don’t like things in Modernist Rome, don’t worry, a woman will come along and correct that which Jesus Christ instituted on Holy Thursday.

    *

  2. teresa says:

    Every time when I read Pablo’s comment I have to shake my head but there is no point answering to him, his ranting shows what some of the SSPX really think and I’ve read this kind of comments thousands of times which are shared both by radical SSPX and Sedivacantists. Sometimes I am asking myself whether he should be allowed to post this kind of poison containing sedivacantist rantings like “modernist Rome” etc., but also these elements from conspiracy theory. But I am no friend of censor so I won’t propose this to our team. Still, I hope that most of our readers are good Catholics who are loyal to the Holy Father and Holy See and that they will discern for themselves.

    Back to the topic I don’t know why Pablo should get over excited about the Neocatechumenal way. I know almost nothing about this community and have no interest in them, I never see any one of them in my neighbourhood so whatever Rome decides it is allright. Roma locuta causa finita.

    As for the plurality of Rites there has always been a plurality of rites. Before the Tridentine Council there had been a lot of different Rites in the Latin Church. In Spain and in Italy there were many Rites restricted to a certain region. Diocese Trier in Germany today, had its special Rite well into the 19th. century. Not to mention the Orders, a very kind gentleman I know told me he assisted as a child in a Mass according to the Dominican Rite and had to make acquittance with this Rite several days before the Mass in which he served. The Cistercian Abbey Mariawald started just recently again to celebrate in their own special Rite.

  3. pablo says:

    “…But I am no friend of censor…”

    God has granted you that grace.

    Blessed be God in all His Angels, and all His Saints.

    By the way, I am not a member of the SSPX; I maintain sites with Priests of the SSPX because the sermons and catechisms edify souls.

    Do they or do they not?

    Do you see a donation button or advertisements on my sites?

    I am loyal to His Holiness, and understand how a Chair of Peter can be vacant per Canon Law, but I am not a Sedevacantist.

    This neo way of doing things has been promoted in my Freemason infiltrated Diocese for several years now.

    I am much hated by the Holy Roller Whitened Sepulcher Pharisees of the SSPX.

    Their name for me which is meant as a slander is Pablo the Mexican. They thought I would not find this out, so I use it as my blog name.

    Along with a picture of my family they hate so much.

    Regular Catholics of the SSPX and I are friends, and I consider them to be above and beyond good Catholics.

    I have a video of my good friend’s wedding; I love her and her whole family:

    [note by editor: this video has been posted by the said commentator for more than 3 times, thus repetition deleted, next time the same video will be removed without noting]

    Do not treat me as an agent of Satan. Treat me as your son and pray that the Dispenser of Divine Graces provide to me the graces and tools necessary to fight the good fight.

    For with my blood and with my soul I will defend the cross.

    God writes straight with crooked lines of which I am one of them.

    We men depend on the sweet prayers of you righteous women to ascend to Heaven on our behalf please pray for us.

    I went to Confession to a Padre who with trembling hands told me the Devil was persecuting him; I ask your prayers on his behalf, and also for Padre Carlos C. who was attacked and had to go into seclusion.

    With our blood and with our soul, Madam.

    *

  4. teresa says:

    I see pablo that is why you are posting on our blog, the Anglequeen.org will censor you.
    I’ve removed the video link you keep repetitively posting. Your comments are also too long. I am feeling that I am losing patience with you but perhaps it is best to ignore you from now on. Nothing against you as a fellow human being but your repetition has become quite annoying. Well, bye then for now.

    P.S. as for your site I never looked at it and has not intention to, it is like the site Traditoninaction I assume.

  5. JabbaPapa says:

    The speech by B16 is brilliant, and its Italian is both graceful and elegant.

    Pablo has no doubt missed the fact that the Pope has provided an approval to hold such rituals, in the Catholic spirit, but has in no way approved them as being valid replacements for the rituals and sacrifice of the Holy Mass.

  6. pablo says:

    I did not miss the Holy Father’s message…

    I understand this will be translated by people to mean exactly opposite of what the Holy Father intends.

    I do think mentioning me with that bunch that runs angelqueen is about the last straw for me with you all.

    I am going to unsubscribe you that peace and comfort returns to you.

    *

  7. teresa says:

    Pablo, sorry to hear that you decide to unsubscribe. But if even Angelqueen is too “liberal” for you it will really be hard for you to find people who agree with you. I can’t speak for the team but I shall speak here for myself and in my opinion you can speak out your opinion but I will oppose it when I find it wrong or not appropriate. And I do really find the way you use our blog to make propaganda for your own agenda really not appropriate. Whatsoever, I wish you well in your further journey.

  8. Giovanni A. Cattaneo says:

    Teresa just to let you know as you seem to be in the dark about the the neo-cats they are every respect the last children of Archbishop Bugnini that alone should give you pause. Add to that the fact that their liturgy is centered around the ideas of a certain Martin Luther this is not speculation it is freely admitted and promoted by the leaders of this group.

    However the title is misleading the Holy Father has not approved their liturgy.

  9. JabbaPapa says:

    However the title is misleading the Holy Father has not approved their liturgy.

    Yes, quite.

    What has happened is that their extra-liturgical rituals have been permitted, which neither means that these rituals are a new form of the Mass, nor that participating in these rituals should be understood as equivalent to attending Holy Mass.

  10. pablo says:

    “…I’ve removed the video link you keep repetitively posting…”

    Miss Teresa,

    Here is another video for you to remove; it is of another Mexican attacking all you and your group hold most dear.

    His name has an Fr. before it.

    Our Patroness is Nuestra Senora Santa Maria de Guadalupe.

    God painted a picture of his Dove, and gave it to us poor sinners.

    *

  11. teresa says:

    Sigh, someone who went away yesterday slammed the door behind him saying that he wouldn’t be back any more, but now only after a few hours he is back and is now trying again to show that he is the only righteous left in the world, without knowing that people are having a lot of patience with him.
    But whatsoever, post as you like pablo I won’t waste any time with you but I won’t censor you either, for the time being.

  12. pablo says:

    I tried to unsubscribe but your new post keep coming through.

    Block all posts to me, please.

    *

  13. toadspittle says:

    .

    Pablo, throw your computer into the Rio Grande. That should sort it.

  14. Gertrude says:

    Having looked a little more closely at the Neo-Cats, I find their movement a little disconcerting. The following (from a conference in Rome), of which I have reproduced a tiny fraction, should give us all cause for caution:

    “Introduction: The speaker is in his fifties, married with two children and he has been a secular Franciscan for nine years. Six years ago his parish went from the guidance of monks to the direction of a diocesan priest who then introduced the parishioners to the Neocatechumenal movement. Several parishioners were enthusiastic about this invitation to participate in the hope that it would enrich their own Christian and Franciscan spirituality. But soon their expectations turned into disappointment because of the exasperatingly prophetic way in which the catechists presented: “We are the angels of the Lord!”, “Jesus Christ is coming with us!”, “Seize this opportunity now because it may never come again!”

    After two months, the majority of the congregation, shocked by the doctrinal divergences from catholic doctrine, left the catechists. Since then, the speaker has taken an interest in this movement. He has collected testimonies and studied the catechists’ Orientation guide which contains the beliefs of Kiko Arguello and Carmen Hernandez. The guide is a three-hundred-seventy-three-page mimeograph, said to have been inspired by the followers of the movement. Even though it is the foundation of their catechesis, it’s kept secret.”

    It would seem increasingly that perhaps Bishop Fellay and SSPX have an important point to make. For anyone that might be interested the link to the document quoted above is: http://www.christianorder.com/features/features_2000/features_feb00_1.html

    (Thanks to Teresa for verifying the link)

  15. pablo says:

    “…Pablo, throw your computer into the Rio Grande…”

    After my family was murdered at Church by American Freemasons, my Aunt carried my father on her back and a baby in her womb as she crossed over into Douglas, Arizona.

    My father became legal by going to war and returning alive.

    My family opposes illegal immigration; it is a sin to violate the law.

    So, not all of us are wetbacks.

    Yes. We call illegals Mojados. That is what they are.

    Others would consider your comments racist and malicious, but I don’t. They come from ignorance.

    I am not surprised these remarks are condoned on this site, while Truth is ridiculed.

    I am wondering how to unsubscribe; I have tried several times. Any suggestions?

    *

  16. teresa says:

    Dear Gertrude, the link you provided above doesn’t function, but I found the article it is published in Christian Order, Feb. 2000, it is from a video presentation made by ario Frugiuele, Engineer, from Florence, Italy.

    the link is: http://www.christianorder.com/features/features_2000/features_feb00_1.html

    The controversy around the Neo-Cathechumenal Way is summarized at Wikipedia:

    “During the 40 years since its inception the Neocatechumenal Way, despite receiving the support of all of the reigning pontiffs, has drawn some harsh criticism, especially in the 1980s and the 1990s, by some priests, theologians and by local bishops, concerning the orthodoxy of the Way’s teachings and the validity of its liturgical practices. [...] The Neocatechumenal Way has never made any official pronouncement regarding the accusations of heresy, but have always relied on declarations by the Holy See. The two strongest signs of approval by the Holy See was the approval of the Statutes in 2008 and in the reaffirmation of the Orientations for the Teams of Catechists, also known as the Catechetical Directory, of the approval first issued in 2003 and then again in January 2011.[50] These indicate the approval of the Church in both the structure of the Neocatechumenal Way and also of its teachings.”
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neocatechumenal_Way

    At the German language and traditionalist oriented Website Kathnews.de, where Mrsg. Weishaupt (Canonist and Latinist in Netherland) is a main editor, there is an analysis which supports what Jabba said above, not the liturgy of the Neocatechumenal Way is approved but some extra-liturgical elements for their own community is approved and the Pope urged them to integrate themselves into their Diocese and be obedient to the local Bishop.

    “Tatsächlich wurde mit dem Dekret nicht „die Liturgie des Neokatechumenates“ approbiert, wie sowohl aus dem Dekret selbst, als auch aus der Ansprache des Pontifex anläßlich einer Audienz welche er dem movimento gewährte hervorgeht. [...] Es sind also allein jene Feiern (“celebrazioni”) approbiert, welche a) im Direktorium des neokatechumenalen Weges enthalten sind und b) nicht ob deren liturgischen Charakters bereits in den liturgischen Büchern der Kirche genormt sind. Das bedeutet, daß es sich nicht um liturgische Feiern handelt, sondern um sonstige, nicht-liturgische Eigenfeiern des movimento. Das Dekret bezieht sich also nicht auf die heiligen Sakramente oder auf die Sakramentalien der Kirche.

    Dasselbe geht aus der Ansprache des Pontifex maximus an die Teilnehmer der Audienz hervor, welche er dem Neokatechumenat am 20. Januar 2012 gewährte: „Poco fa vi è stato letto il Decreto con cui vengono approvate le celebrazioni presenti nel “Direttorio Catechetico del Cammino Neocatecumenale”, che non sono strettamente liturgiche, ma fanno parte dell’itinerario di crescita nella fede”.

    Der Papst selbst bezieht das Dekret also ausdrücklich auf jene Feiern des Neokatechumenates, welche nicht im engen Sinne “Liturgie” sind. Damit sind Hl. Messen, Taufen, Firmungen und sonstige liturgische Feiern der Kirche von der Approbation ausgenommen.”
    from: http://www.kathnews.de/berichterstattung-ueber-die-approbation-einiger-feiern-des-neokatechumenalen-weges

  17. JabbaPapa says:

    The main characteristic of Catholic groups that are in the broad zone of the various Charismatic movements is that of a divergence not away from doctrine but in extraligurgical practices that other Catholics do not engage in — but there is OTOH a clear danger of schismatic tendencies wherever these practices, which are not uncatholic in themselves, can lead to some forms of isolation from and potentially conflict with the rest of the Church.

    The more outwardly divergent Charismatic groups and movements tend to be either condemned or more simply non-encouraged or discouraged ; but the general policy of Bishops is to encourage most groups to always remain focused on various centrally vital doctrines of our Church, such as the Eucharist, the Liturgy, Thanksgiving, Grace, or various forms of the Tradition or the Dogmata — and to always ensure overseeing by their diocese via the agency of an unaffiliated priest whose job is to ensure no divergence from the orthodoxy.

    I do agree with you Gertrude, to the extent that your presentation of the sorts of reticence towards these sorts of groups is a real question about their very existence that many lay Catholics and priests can legitimately ponder.

    The purpose though, of this general policy of the Bishops towards such groups, is very clearly to ensure that the basically licit activities of these or those Charismatics do not become an occasion either for heresy or schism or Protestantism ; that these activities will *always* be understood by participants and by all other laity and clergy and religious as being fully antecedent and secondary to, and in fact explicitly supportive of, the Holy Liturgy of the Mass ; and in other words to help ensure that the Catholicity itself of our Church will always be of the utmost primary concern.

    To try and put it as neatly as possible, it is actually less important that all Catholics should agree with the specific religiosities of such groups, than that these groups are clearly and explicitly required to agree with and support and practice the universal religiosity of our common Catholicism.

    To make a parallel from my own experience, not every Catholic is, nor can be, nor should be a Compostelan foot pilgrim — but the activity of being such a foot pilgrim neither makes one a better Catholic than others, nor is it in any way incompatible with our shared Catholicity in general ; but rather, it is precisely that shared Catholicity that provides for the holy reconciliation of our various callings and charisms and divergences and disagreements and returns and reconciliations into a single, respectful, and passionate Faith in the Lord.

  18. teresa says:

    Jabba, the first passage you wrote above is quite insightful, there is the danger of isolation, but it doesn’t apply alone to the charismatic groups but almost to all these groups which have communal activities outside of the diocese and parishes they belong to. So it is an important point made by our Holy Father that they should integrate themselves into the Diocesan life.

    On the other hand, one of the greatest strength of our Church is to maintain our Unity along with cultural diversity (not the doctrinal of course as the Doctrine should and must be One, and no diversity in this regard can be tolerated), so if there are some special features in their celebration which are not of liturgical nature, I don’t find it to be so problematical.

    I don’t know much about the Neo-Cathechumenal Way and neither am I interested in getting know them, I assume I won’t like them very much, but the Church has millions of members and I can’t demand that everything in the Church must be made to my own personal taste, so I will rely on Rome, if Rome hasn’t spoken nor warned against them, I should assume that they are just ordinary Catholics like me, I am not better than them so I have no right to judge over them.

  19. JabbaPapa says:

    pablo : Truth is ridiculed

    I’m sorry, but I simply cannot let this particular attack upon the community of Catholic and non-Catholic contributors to the articles posted here, or comments upon those articles, be unopposed.

    Nobody here, pablo, has attacked your Catholicism, nor your Catholic right to hold certain individual or collective opinions that our Church teaches as being licit.

    But your continuous pretensions that you have an access to truth that is both inerrant and exclusive is incompatible with Catholicism — and by that, I mean the deepest and most traditional Catholicism as it has survived throughout the Millennia, instead of just the conservative 19th century version.

    If you describe some fully legitimate personal understandings of fellow Catholics as being divorced from Truth, then all that you will achieve is to create a dissension in our Church.

    Heresies and schisms and apostasies and blasphemies must certainly be denounced wherever they may occur, but that does not add up to your own personal and inevitably limited experience of whichever personal or collective Revelation being the sum total of all that the Church can understand nor teach.

    Even seeing the Virgin, and through her presence, glimpsing a luminiferous shadow of the all-embracing majesty and infinite glory of our God does not magically destroy the limitations of our personal understandings.

    Please meditate on this, pablo.

  20. JabbaPapa says:

    Jabba, the first passage you wrote above is quite insightful

    Not my doing, just some specific instruction on the question from some VERY insightful priests, including a Bishop and the Archbishop who baptised me :)

  21. teresa says:

    Jabba, just read the whole comment of you above with greater care, and I must say I agree in full. You put it very well and very clearly. And there is no need to add any thing else but perhaps I am allowed to express my agreement with some more words:just like you said, every group should understand itself as a part of the Church and its activities should be regulated by local Bishops and the corresponding Church authority, but no one should feel “more Catholic” than the other Catholics, only because of their own particularity.

  22. pablo says:

    Pope Saint Pius X attacked Modernist Liberal Catholics… was he and those that subscribe to his pronouncements being more Catholic than others?

    Arian also was to be respected, right?

    Martin Luther as well?

    send me an unsubscribe link, please.

    *

  23. Gertrude says:

    I absolutely agree with all you have said Jabba, but the crux lies with our Bishop’s (God help them), and in this context I am saddened to have to say, the leadership and pastoral care that one would expect has not always been forthcoming. It is not my policy to ‘Bishop-bash’ – God knows they have a difficult calling and deserve our most fervent prayers.

    Teresa, “I don’t know much about the Neo-Cathechumenal Way and neither am I interested in getting know them, I assume I won’t like them very much,…” Well, neither was I particularly interested before the Holy Father gave them a limited amount of approval – but then I feel it behoves us all to examine what is good – and equally what is not. I am always wary of groups that have leaders that enjoy almost cult status, and nothing that I have thus far learnt of this group persuades me that it would ever be something that I could embrace. I fully understand the Holy Father’s wish to reach out to lapsed communities (which I gather is supposed to be the ‘charism’ of Neo-Cats), but when a Catholic lapses, for whatever reason, great compassion along with discernment needs to be exercised, and I am not convinced this is the best way.

    Before I hear voices of accusation that I disagree with the Holy Father, well, in a limited way I do, but thanks be to God I do not have to be obedient to every utterance of a Pontiff unless it is spoken either ex. cathedra, or included in the Magisterium. The Neo-Catechumenal Way is neither.

  24. JabbaPapa says:

    pablo, both of those schismatics willfully divorced themselves from our Church.

    As for “Modernist Liberal”, you are conflating two entirely different questions.

    Modernism is the heresy whereby the doctrines of the Church should be obedient to whichever contemporary notions ; Liberalism in the Church is OTOH simply a certain kind of Catholic attitude towards doctrinal interpretation.

    pablo, please meditate on my contribution concerning the holy Virgin, my feeling is that a specific meditation requesting her help will be of benefit to you :)

  25. teresa says:

    Dear Gertrude, I do believe everyone can have his own opinions and can question things. Every one is different and that is why we have the blog as a place to discuss.

    As for me, I have some quite practical considerations: my position is thus, the Church is very very big and has so many groups, congregations etc. I can disagree or agree with them but I am objectively unable to make a really objective judgement about all of them so I leave it to the Holy See or the Bishops who are in charge of Magisterium to decide. I am only a very simple lay woman and I can lose oversight, and it is objectively impossible for me to get enough information to judge in a just way. Some groups accuse the others but who is right who is wrong? Of course I can take time to study the issue in question closely and I do in some topics which interest me very much but the point is that I am just unable to study everything. And if there are some groups accusing the others groups whom I shall listen to? From a very practical consideration I choose to listen to the decision from Rome, but if there are some pro and contra arguments I will also be able to hear and won’t forbid any one to argue for his position.

  26. JabbaPapa says:

    It is not helpful to just delete pablo’s messages — just as he should not presume to represent “true Catholicism”, neither should any of us ; the acceptance of disagreements within the framework of the dogmata is basic to our Catholicism.

  27. teresa says:

    I didn’t delete it, he asked to be sent an unsubscribe link but I was not able to do it. He should just stop posting or coming here if he hates this blog so much. But perhaps it is just his aim, he wants to be hollier-than-you and here with some moderate voices he thinks he’s found eventually the enemies he would like to fight against so desparately (no danger here as here is only a blog and the “fight” costs nothing but only his precious time). Though posting on blogs in this quite destructive way is just a waste of time but he needs it perhaps.

  28. Gertrude says:

    It transpires that the good people of Manchester (at the invitation of their Bishop) are to receive one of the Neo-Cats “missio ad gentes”. It will be interesting to see how this works in practice, so I will desist from being polemical.

    Regarding Pablo, all I will say is that God loves him, and so should we.

  29. teresa says:

    Well, Gertrude, if there are some activities in your neighbourhood it will be really interesting to see what and how they are. From the information from Wikipedia I heard that they were also welcomed by the Bishop of Holy Land. In my own diocese there is almost none of them.

    I read also in Wikipedia that the main endeavour of the Neocatechumenal Way is to keep the already baptised in communities and to intensify their faith. At the first glance there is nothing wrong with it, I am really curious to know why people are having so much concern about them. The passionist Father who started to combat them in the 90s’ accused them of missing the sacrifice character of the Mass. But it is his opinion and I can’t judge whether it is the fact or it is just an accusation, given the fact that even the Jesuits were accused by the competing Dominicans as “heretical” and was even abolished for a time being.

    I am not arguing for the Neocatechumenal Way, I really have nothing to do with them and don’t have any intention to. But were they ever lapsed? Perhaps it is just a rumour that they were lapsed as officially there was never a condemnation from the Teaching Authority nor a warning. I also read that a Bishop in Japan wanted to expel them but the Holy See prevented this.

    I know some people are very uncomfortable with them, and I take this as information. But to see whether they are really dangerous I do need more information, and not only information, perhaps even own experience as hear-say is not really convincing, and in the end, the power of deciding over these contentions always lies in the hand of the Holy See, and perhaps we can disagree but we have to obey. And are we obliged to obey the official decisions of the Holy See? Or are we only obliged to obey the dogmata? I remember vaguely reading about that we are also bound to obey these official decisions as Catholics, perhaps someone who is more familiar with the Canon Law can give me a better and more precise explanation.

  30. JabbaPapa says:

    We are not obliged to join one of these groups, anyway…

  31. toadspittle says:

    “I am wondering how to unsubscribe; I have tried several times. Any suggestions?”

    Moans Pablo. He seems to think Toad’s suggestion that he throw his computer into the river is somehow “racist.”
    It isn’t .And if Toad were to suggest that Pablo jumps in after it, that wouldn’t be racist either.

    Failing that, he needn’t “unsubscribe.” He could just stop reading CP&S.

    (To the racist, all things are racist.)

    *

  32. Wall Eyed Mr Whippy says:

    Pablo should stay on this site. It might help him come back from a place ten light years away from the Horsehead Nebula.

    Pablo, the learned contributors here have engaged with you in a very kindly way and without rancour. Hang on in there and mellow. The devils you once said that you ‘fistfight’ are not on CP&S.

    G, the phrase “Bishop bash” has connotations other than what you intended; I wouldn’t like that you become embarrassed elsewhere.

  33. pablo says:

    Mr. Whippy,

    An unsubscribe link would be good.

    *

  34. Wall Eyed Mr Whippy says:

    Yes, Pablo, maybe I should reconsider my advice that you stay onsite. On second thoughts, just you go for the ‘unsubscribe’.

    Mwah!

  35. Wall Eyed Mr Whippy says:

    Your ‘Prayer For The US Government’ made me want to cry ‘RUTH’!

  36. annem040359 says:

    After reading a short bit of this, as an American Catholic I have to ask, what is a “Neocatechumenal Way” ? Thanks for all responses.

    This shows I know more about the New England Patriots and the New York Giants in American football than obscure branches of the Church.

  37. JabbaPapa says:

    As far as I can make out, the Neocatechumenal Way is an attempt to provide the same sort of experiences that Catechumens go through during the process of conversion and initiation into the Faith, for cradle Catholics.

    Fundamentally then it should be seen as an educational and catechetic movement rather than as a branch of the Church.

  38. Louise Jarka says:

    Actually I went to a neo Mass a few weeks ago at my Parish. I didn’t know what it was. I thought it was just a regular Mass at 7PM. Kissing, hugging, telling their life story after the gospel, the host was a pieta bread, with crumbs all over, they asked me to leave before they started dancing at the end of the mass. Somebody tell me what happened to the four marks of the Church? No more One Holy Catholic and Apostolic. The Pope is helping create a monster!!!!! More people will leave this religion.

  39. Pingback: Ecclesial Movements, Charism and the Ordinary Magesterium | It's a Crazy Catholic World

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