Blessed Alexandrina Maria da Costa – A Living Miracle of the Eucharist

(One of our readers, Mr. Kevin Rowles,  sent us this article, click here to go to his homepage)

By Kevin Rowles

October 13th is well-known as the anniversary of Our Lady’s apparition and the solar miracle at Fatima, but it is also the anniversary of the death of Portuguese mystic and victim soul Blessed Alexandrina Maria da Costa, whose life was closely connected to the Fatima events.  Pope John Paul II beatified Alexandrina in 2004 and decreed that her feast be celebrated on this date.

Alexandrina was born on the 30th March 1904 in Balasar, a small rural village about 40 miles north of Porto.  When she was 14, an attempt on her virtue was to have devastating consequences.  In 1918, while Alexandrina, her sister Deolinda, and a friend were in the house, three drunken men broke in, in order to rape them.  Rather than submit to the attack, Alexandrina jumped from a window, falling 12 feet on to hard ground.  As a result, her spine was irreversibly damaged. Her condition deteriorated, and she became bedridden on the 14th April 1924, aged twenty.

Alexandrina came to realise that suffering was to be her vocation.  In 1931, she entered into a state of ecstasy and heard Jesus confirming her vocation as a victim soul, when He requested her to “Love, suffer and make reparation.” She gave her consent and asked Jesus for the necessary grace to fulfil her mission of suffering for humanity.  This was the first of many ecstasies.

Around 1935 Alexandrina received messages from Jesus, warning that a second world war would take place as a punishment for the sins of humanity, which could only be averted by the consecration of the world to the Immaculate Heart of Mary.  Jesus urged Alexandrina, through her spiritual director, to petition the Holy Father to perform this consecration, and for her to pray and offer her sufferings so that it might be achieved.  From then on, she offered everything for this intention.

Some have been confused by Our Lord’s request to Alexandrina for the world to be consecrated to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, when Our Lady specified at Fatima that Russia was to be consecrated.  In his work ‘The Whole Truth About Fatima’, Frere Michel explains:- “The requests and promises of Fatima were destined to dominate our whole century. But while He waited for the fuller realization of this great design of mercy through the conversion of Russia, God chose another messenger (Alexandrina) to entrust her with obtaining another less spectacular and meritorious act.  Still, this act would contribute to the development of devotion to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, and facilitate the fulfilment of the most important requests, the only decisive ones, those of Fatima”.  Fr Umberto Pasquale, Alexandrina’s spiritual director and also a confidante of Sister Lucia, confirmed that Alexandrina’s mission, although connected, was distinct from that of Sister Lucia:- “The mission of Alexandrina, had been to obtain the consecration of the Church and of the world to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. The mission of Sister Lucia is to obtain the conversion of Russia by its Consecration to the Immaculate Heart of Mary made by the Pope and all the bishops of the world in union with him.

Alexandrina consented to mystically undergo Christ’s Passion each Friday to help bring about the consecration of the world to the Immaculate Heart of Mary.  On the 3rd October 1938, the Passion ecstasies started, and all those present in the room were astounded by what happened.  This woman, who had lain in her bed completely paralysed for over 14 years, suddenly got up and was able to move around the room.[1] Each Friday until 1942, during these ecstasies, Alexandrina suffered everything, from the Agony to the Crucifixion.  Jesus told her that the Holy Father had decided to consecrate the world to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. Pope Pius XII performed the consecration on 31st October 1942, an act which shortened the duration of World War II.  Although Alexandrina was overwhelmed with joy that the consecration had been done, her mission of suffering was not yet over.  In fact, it was to enter a new and even more astounding phase – a thirteen year fast in which she would miraculously live on the Holy Eucharist alone.

Alexandrina’s complete fasting was medically confirmed in hospital.  A doctor stated in an official report that “ . . . it is absolutely certain that during forty days of being bedridden in hospital, the sick woman did not eat or drink . . . and we believe such phenomenon could have happened during the past months, perhaps the past 13 months . . . leaving us perplexed.” While this phenomenon was inexplicable to everyone else, Alexandrina knew its cause, as Jesus had already told her:- “You are living by the Eucharist alone because I want to prove to the world the power of the Eucharist and the power of my life in souls.”

After years of great suffering, on 13th October 1955, after a vision of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, who told her that She was about to take her to Heaven, Alexandrina received Holy Communion for the last time, and delivered her final poignant message to all humanity, crying out:- “Do not sin. The pleasures of this life are worth nothing.  Receive Communion.  Pray the Rosary every day. This sums up everything.” She died at 8.29pm.

Model of purity and perseverance in the Faith, especially for youth; ardent adorer of Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament; inspiration and help for those suffering in any way; faithful Fatima messenger: Blessed Alexandrina is all these things and much more.  Many have already benefited from the graces won by her sufferings and prayers, and undoubtedly, many more will benefit in the future. Please pray that her canonisation may take place soon.[2]

[1] Some parts of these Passion ecstasies were filmed.  Brief excerpts can be seen here:- www.blessed-alexandrina.com/page_video.htm


[2] Kevin Rowles’ new fully illustrated booklet ‘Blessed Alexandrina – A Living Miracle of the Eucharist’ is available on-line at www.newhope-ky.org/inspiringlives.htm

 


 

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24 Responses to Blessed Alexandrina Maria da Costa – A Living Miracle of the Eucharist

  1. toadspittle says:

    “Around 1935 Alexandrina received messages from Jesus, warning that a second world war would take place as a punishment for the sins of humanity, which could only be averted by the consecration of the world to the Immaculate Heart of Mary.”

    Bit of rather petulant divine blackmail here?

    “If all you sinners don’t consecrate the world to the Immaculate Heart of Mary within four years I will start World War Two, during which, among many millions of other horrible goings on, Germany will attempt to wipe out the entire Jewish race.”

    I may be reading Mr. Rowles wrongly, but I don’t see how. What do my CP&S friends think about this?

    It is the same vengeful God who sent the flood, it seems.

  2. joyfulpapist says:

    If I tell my child that if they don’t do their homework they won’t pass their exams, or if they don’t brush their teeth they’ll have to have fillings – and they don’t, and the bad things come to pass, am I being vengeful?

    I read the Fatima warnings, and the one reported above, as saying that we could have made a difference. If we – the people of the Church (let alone the people of the world) – had been sufficiently faithful and devout to obey God in this way, we would have changed hearts so that the people who started the wars would not have been able to do so. Giving people warnings to encourage them to change their ways so that they avoid bad consequences far from vengeful.

    It takes both a leader and sufficient followers to begin a war. It takes a whole army of saints to prevent one. We could be saints. But we refuse the grace.

  3. alexandrinasociety says:

    Thanks Joyful Papist,
    I think you gave a very good explanation. Thanks to all at CP&S for putting up this post on the feast day of Blessed Alexandrina. My booklet ‘A Living Miracle of the Eucharist’ can also be purchased from St Paul’s Bookshop, Westminster bookshop@stpauls.org.uk and Carmel Books Tel: 01392 824255 enquiries:carmel-books.co.uk
    Also, Mary’s Dowry Productions has just made a new DVD on the life and mission of Blessed Alexandrina, which will be available soon from http://www.marysdowryproductions.org Tel: 07906 446078. We now have an authenticated first-class relic of Blessed Alexandrina and hope to be able to hold an ‘Alexandrina Day of Prayer’ at a central London location next year. Further details will be posted on http://www.blessed-alexandrina.com

  4. Brother Burrito says:

    Toad,

    Did God send the flood, or simply not prevent it?

    The same with WW2.

    Vengeful or issuing of warning?

  5. alexandrinasociety says:

    I don’t think any Catholic would doubt the authenticity of the Fatima apparitions – The October 13th solar miracle at Fatima was witnessed by over 70,000 people. The apparitions have full ecclesiastical approval, and as we all know, a few Popes have made pilgrimages to Fatima and met with Sister Lucia. The Church has never disputed the authenticity of Sister Lucia’s memoirs, which the Fatima shrine authorities have made freely available for years and translated into many languages. Her memoirs have been published with the Imprimatur of the local bishop, and cleared for publication by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. On pages 178/179 of the first volume of memoirs, Sister Lucia gives us Our Lady’s message of July 13th 1917. Part of it states: “You have seen hell where the souls of poor sinners go. To save them, God wishes to establish in the world devotion to my Immaculate Heart. If what I say to you is done, many souls will be saved and there will be peace. The war is going to end; but if people do not cease offending God, a worse one will break out during the pontificate of Pius XI. When you see a night illumined by an unknown light, know that this is the great sign given you by God that he is about to punish the world for its crimes, by means of war, famine and persecutions of the Church and of the Holy Father. To prevent this, I shall come to ask for the consecration of Russia to my Immaculate Heart, and the Communion of Reparation on the First Saturdays. If my requests are heeded, Russia will be converted, and there will be peace; if not, she will spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions of the Church. The good will be martyred, the Holy Father will have much to suffer, various nations will be annihilated. In the end, my Immaculate Heart will triumph . . . “

  6. omvendt says:

    Not wishing to be mischievous, but didn’t WWII break out (‘officially’ at least) after the pontificate of Pius XI?

    I accept that there can be some latitude with the term ‘war’.

    Possibly there is a reference to the Spanish Civil War, which, arguably, had a strong religious dimension.

    I just wonder if Our Blessed Lady was referring specifically to World War II.

    ‘Common sense’ would suggest she was.

    I accept the veracity of Fatima, but, for some time, I have been puzzled by that ‘detail’.

  7. alexandrinasociety says:

    omvendt,
    Frere Michel writes this about the point you raise – hope it is of help:- “There is a second apparent error in the Secret of Fatima that Martindale brings up, following the critique by Dhanis and Journet: «The war did not begin under Pius XI but under Pius XII.» How is this surprising anomaly to be explained? For Pius XI died on February 10, 1939, while war was not declared until seven months later, on September 3. In her letter to Pope Pius XII written on October 24, 1940, the letter which reveals the great Secret to him, Sister Lucy had written, «no reinado de Pio XI» (in the reign of Pius XI). But in the final copy sent to the Pope the following December 2, she had to correct it, no doubt at the request of Bishop da Silva: the phrase was simplified down to «another future war». Yet, Sister Lucy was sure she had not been mistaken. In her Second and Third Memoirs, in 1941, she repeats the authentic expression: «in the reign of Pius XI». In 1946, Father Jongen questioned her on this point:

    «“Did the Most Holy Virgin really pronounce the name of Pius XI?’’ “Yes. We did not know if it was a Pope or a king. But the Most Holy Virgin spoke of Pius XI.” “But didn’t the war begin under Pius XII?” “The annexation of Austria was the occasion for it. When the Munich accord was signed, the sisters were jubilant, because the peace seemed to be saved. I knew better than they did, unfortunately.” “But this Jesuit Father (Dhanis) remarks that the occasion for a war is not the same thing as its happening.” This observation made no impression on the Sister.»
    THE WAR BEFORE THE WAR
    Sister Lucy is right, and her answer has none of that verbal subtlety people sometimes use to get out of a sticky objection. This is a fact often stressed by historians: the Second World War had already begun even before it was declared on paper. Léon Noël, the French ambassador to Warsaw from 1935 to 1939, was able to write a book significantly titled: The War of ’39 Began Four Years Earlier.

    Six months before war was declared, Gabriel Louis-Jaray published The German Offensive in Europe, where he explained just that: the war had, for all practical purposes, already begun. «Introduction: Germany at war. History will probably settle on the date March 7, 1936 as Germany’s entry into the war… Hitler has broken the pact freely decided on at Locarno, and suddenly advanced his armies to the Rhineland territory, which had been demilitarized by common accord; it is his first act of war directly aimed at France.»

    In reality it was nothing more than a first step. The German army was not ready. «Thus it was decided that the German contingents beyond the Rhine would withdraw if the French army itself entered the Rhineland.» Had France reacted, Hitler would have backed down.

    On the other hand, when the columns of the Wehrmacht entered Austria on March 12, 1938, Hitler’s decision had already been made. If it were necessary, he would launch an all-out war. «In his discourse to the Reichstag on January 30, 1939, the Fuhrer declared that he had decided on the invasion of Austria in January of 1938, and the invasion of Bohemia on May 28, 1938.» Thus it can be said in all truth that the Second World War began under Pius XI. The nocturnal aurora of January 25, 1938, did indeed correspond to a decisive stage in the unfolding of the war.

    At the same time in Poland, Saint Maximilian Kolbe, Apostle of the Immaculata, also began prophesying that war was inevitable and imminent:

    «In March 1938, he said – these are his exact words, as one of his brothers was in the habit of stenographing his words – “Know, my little children, that an atrocious conflict is being prepared. We do not yet know what stages it will go through. In our country, Poland, we can expect the worst.”»

  8. omvendt says:

    alexandrinasociety,

    Thank you for your painstaking, informative and cogent reply.

  9. toadspittle says:

    “Did God send the flood, or simply not prevent it?
    The same with WW2.”

    says Burro.

    Burro, if you had been given the chance to prevent WW2, would you have taken it?

    (The flood now, is a different matter. But God wasn’t quite thorough enough.)

  10. toadspittle says:

    Joyfulpapist sees apparently, fillings in teeth not to be mere result of neglect or whatever, but as a punishment . So, get brushing kids!

    “a second world war would take place as a punishment for the sins of humanity,”

    To me, it is utterly immaterial in what year it started. And ‘punishments’ are administered. By somebody.

    There was a war, which God permitted, and its function was to punish everyone in the world. (except John Wayne.)

    “Around 1935 Alexandrina received messages from Jesus, warning that a second world war would take place as a punishment for the sins of humanity, which could only be averted by the consecration of the world to the Immaculate Heart of Mary.”

    And what is the point of God ‘warning’ the girl when he already knew that the war was not going to be be averted?Was it reasonable of God to think that the world could be possibly be consecrated to Mary within five years? You’d have to explain to everyone in the world what He was talking about first.
    And that might take a little longer.

    Some slippery thinking going on here, I opine(!)

  11. alexandrinasociety says:

    Sorry toadspittle, it probably wasn’t clear from the brief article. Our Lord didn’t ask Blessed Alexandrina, or anyone else, to try and explain the Consecration to everyone in the world. He requested Blessed Alexandrina to petition the Holy Father, through her spiritual director, Fr Mariano Pinho, to publicly make the Act of Consecration of the world to the Immaculate Heart, and to pray and offer her sufferings that this Act of Consecration would be made.

  12. omvendt says:

    alexandrinasociety,

    Forgive any crassness here (and also ignorance concerning the facts of the case), but if the Pope were petitioned to carry out the consecration to which you refer, and the Pope neglected to do so (for whatever reason), would that make the Pope responsible for WWII?

  13. joyfulpapist says:

    Punishments are administered. By somebody. Says Toad.

    Really? You’ve never said – when one of your children did something they were told not to and burnt themselves or broke an arm – ‘he’s been punished enough’?

    We’re perfectly able to punish ourselves and everyone around us without any external help.

    God doesn’t make threats. He gives warnings.

    And (on the rare occasions) when those warnings are listened to, amazing things happen. Overnight, the world can change. For evil to triumph in Germany, in the USSR, and in a number of other 20th Century dictatorships it was necessary only that a number of good people did nothing.

  14. alexandrinasociety says:

    omvendt
    I’m not a theologian or even an expert on such matters, although I have read extensively on Fatima and Blessed Alexandrina, so I could only be described as an amateur. I would be very reluctant to apportion blame for WWII (or any war) to any individual, be they Pope or otherwise. Our Lord did ask Blessed Alexandrina to petition the Holy Father for the Consecration, but Fr Mariano Pinho, her spiritual director, for some unknown reason was initially hesitant about carrying out this request, so can we blame Fr Pinho for a delay? Again, I would be very reluctant to do this (incidentally, Fr Pinho’s cause for beatification is underway). Eventually, Our Lord’s insistence to Blessed Alexandrina about the Consecration, accompanied by her pleas, prayers and sufferings, eventually persuaded Fr Pinho to act.
    Our Lady said at Fatima that war (among other things) are punishments for the sins of humanity – in short, all sinners share in the responsibility for such punishments, and I think it is perhaps unwise – and in any event impossible, for no-one can really search another’s heart or judge their motives for actions/inactions – to try and ascertain to what degree certain individuals share in that responsibility. Perhaps enough people didn’t respond to Our Lady’s warnings at Fatima and the warnings given through Blessed Alexandrina. I think it’s reasonably safe to say that if more people had taken to heart and lived out the messages of Fatima and Balasar, and perhaps more promptly, a lot of suffering could have been avoided. More than that, I wouldn’t like to say . . . sorry if I haven’t answered your question sufficiently.

  15. omvendt says:

    alexandrinasociety,

    Thank you for that sincere response.

    I find it difficult to disagree with any of it.

  16. rebrites says:

    but getting back to the original story of how all this began: “In 1918, while Alexandrina, her sister Deolinda, and a friend were in the house, three drunken men broke in, in order to rape them. Rather than submit to the attack, Alexandrina jumped from a window…”

    What happened to the other two women? And what became of the drunken rapist guys? Inquiring minds want to know.

  17. alexandrinasociety says:

    rebrites
    Blessed Alexandrina and a friend, Rosalina, were receiving sewing lessons from Alexandrina’s sister, Deolinda, in their home. She heard noises from below and looking out the window, she saw her ex-employer with two other men. Obviously under the influence of alcohol, they had come to try to assault the women. Panic stricken, the women locked themselves in and called out to the men to go away, but the men were not in the mood for rejection. They broke into the house and levered open a trapdoor in the floor of the room in which the women were working. After getting into the room, the other two men pursued Deolinda and Rosalina, while Alexandrina’s ex-employer cornered her. She lashed out at him with her rosary, crying “ Jesus, help me! ”. Rather than submit to his assault, Alexandrina took the only way out and jumped from a window, falling 12 feet on to hard ground. The pain she experienced from this fall was extreme, but not content with having escaped with her own virtue intact, she went back into the house armed with a piece of wood to defend the virtue of her sister and her friend – and like David and Goliath, against all the odds, she triumphed. Her counter-attack was successful and the men fled. Alexandrina’s assailant eventually repented of his sin, and joined the crowd of people waiting to visit her on her sick-bed. Upon seeing her he cried and said “She is a saint – and to think she is crucified on that bed of pain through my fault!” I do not know what happened to his accomplices. The name of Blessed Alexandrina’s ex-employer hasn’t been made public to the best of my knowledge. One Portuguese publication wrote: “let us call him ‘Rui'” I have (rightly or wrongly) discerned a kind of ‘delicacy’ in this matter, and I wonder if there is a reticence to make it widely known because his relatives are still living in the vicinity of Balasar? Possibly. Many of the Marto family (Blessed Jacinta & Francisco) still live in the village of Aljustrel at Fatima, so this could be the case. Hope this has been of help.

  18. toadspittle says:

    “(Our Lord) …requested Blessed Alexandrina to petition the Holy Father, through her spiritual director, Fr Mariano Pinho, to publicly make the Act of Consecration of the world to the Immaculate Heart, and to pray and offer her sufferings that this Act of Consecration would be made.”

    And, if the Holy Father failed to do this, God would, as Burro so cunningly puts it, not prevent World War Two.

    There. Have I got it right, now?

    As to Toad thinking he’s been ‘punished enough’ by all these cruel Catholics, Toad thinks that ‘punished’ in that context is only a metaphor.
    As to whether God saying, “If you don’t buck your ideas up, I will allow a world war (which I could prevent if I wanted) to start,” is a threat or a warning, is another example of a Montaigne-like ‘difference of opinion.’
    For which, in this case, more than just a couple of heretics got roasted.

    I suppose, my point is, if there is a God who acts, (or declines to act) like this, is He (or She) worth worshiping?
    One can see why people in Belsen, Hiroshima, Dresden, Coventry, in fact most anywhere during that war, (or any war) might not think so.

    In other posts, I have kept off the issue of ‘man-made’ war, and asked why God allows, or fails to prevent,things like the Haiti earthquake.
    But this post raised the issue in an interesting way. I don’t think I have heard the idea of God ‘allowing,’ ‘warning,’ ‘threatening,’ war as a ‘punishment’ before. Except from atheists, of course.

    Though, in the Good Old days, he was always cheerfully encouraging the Israelites to smite the Philistines twice a day, once after breakfast and once before bedtime.

    The Philistines, it seems, were what are now Palestinians. So that’s all right.

    And, yes, Joyful, one might well imagine World War Two had ‘punished us all’ enough by now. But apparently not.

  19. joyfulpapist says:

    Toad comments on the suggestion that God could have prevented WWII.

    I believe He could have. Through us. He has created the world in such a way that He works through us – we are His hands in the world. If we refuse to prevent wars; refuse to build in such a way that earthquake damage is minimised; refuse to give medical care to children, etc, etc, etc – then our consequent suffering is caused by people, not by God.

    Do this, says God, or there will be war. Does this mean, as Toad suggests, that God causes the war? Does it mean that – if we do whatever is required – God will miraculously intervene on the battlefield?

    I suggest it means that the action we are asked for (whatever it might be) is the necessary small intervention that will change particular hearts and minds – the hearts and minds of those individuals who are instrumental in causing the war, or who could be instrumental in preventing it.

  20. toadspittle says:

    Joyful,
    I always appreciate the kindly and lucid way you respond to my doubts or objections, or whatever. I’m inclined to let this one go, myself, and agree to differ.

    One or two little digs, though:

    “Does it mean that – if we do whatever is required – God will miraculously intervene on the battlefield? “

    … You ask.

    Where I live, yes, it seems! And we’ve got the statues to prove it.
    In at least one case, I’ve seen, (may even be Santiago cathedral?) the decapitated and/or screaming, panic-stricken, Moors are now discreetly and totally covered by a bank of flowers!

    And… how could people have ‘refused’ for example, to live in Lisbon in 1755, when nothing even remotely on that scale had ever happened there before (or since, come to that?) How, when and where can we ever be safe from the horrors of this highly volatile planet? And why must it be this way? Would you blame people for living in Los Angeles in 1994? How were people to know of Krakatoa or Vesuvius?
    If the recent New Zealand earthquake had – God forbid! – killed you, would you say, “Well tough luck on me for not building a house that was earthquake-resistant enough, or for being in my car when the road ahead opened and swallowed me up?”
    Of course not – you’d be dead!
    (Although, come to think of it, in the case of L.A. I suspect I’d blame people myself for living there.)

    Truly God works, etc., etc….

  21. joyfulpapist says:

    Toad, I know that people interpret God’s intervention the way you say – quite apart from all the other evidence out there, I spent a memorable year as a fundamentalist evangelical when I was a teen, and I’ve read the psalms! Our understanding of God has developed through the last 6000 years. And our ideas about God need to be filtered through our knowledge of Christ. But even then, it seems that the lessons about God as Loving Father need to be relearned by each individual and each generation.

    Regarding the recent earthquake, I live just outside of Wellington which has been expecting ‘the big one’ (8+ Richter – or 10x Christchurch) since long before I lived here, so your point is apposite. Dead I am quite happy about. Graduation! Yay! Severely injured I’m not too keen on. But if my roof falls in – well, I paid to have it built. Mea culpa.

    Did you see my post comparing Christchurch and Haiti? http://joyfulpapist.wordpress.com/2010/09/06/acts-of-god-and-acts-of-men/

    And the followup post on that stupid cliche “the sum total of human suffering”?
    http://joyfulpapist.wordpress.com/2010/09/07/total-of-human-suffering-1/

    These have some more ammunition you might like to throw at me.

  22. The Raven says:

    Toad

    If humanity, as a race, had concentrated on consecrating itself to the Immaculate Heart of Our Lady, instead of piling up weapons and planning wars I doubt that there would have been a war: we would have been too busy for fighting!

    I think that what Our Lord was showing to Bl Alexandrina was a way to cure ourselves of the sickness of war, not making a dire threat if we did not do as He asked.

  23. toadspittle says:

    I suspect that what it comes down to is what constitutes a warning, and what a threat.

    “Alexandrina received messages from Jesus, warning that a second world war would take place as a punishment for the sins of humanity…”

    I took this to mean if we don’t shape up, we will be punished for it. Yes, says Joyful, but we will be punishing ourselves.. Same with earthquakes, apparently. People who find themselves living where one happens are ‘punishing’ themselves for not being careful enough in their choice of residence. Same with the millions of indigenous inhabitants of the Americas who died from European diseases 500 years ago. ‘Punished’ by themselves for not being picky enough about the folk they allowed into their continent, it would seem.

    As to ‘threats’ and ‘warnings’ – Is it a threat to say to your child, “If you don’t clean your teeth, I will punch you in the head.”?
    And is it a warning to say to her, “If you don’t clean your teeth, I will not prevent your sister from punching you in the head.”?

  24. joyfulpapist says:

    No I didn’t. I neither said, nor meant, anything of the kind.

    Do you really want the ‘free will’ discussion, Toad?

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