Last week, Cardinal Brady spoke eloquently on the rights of the unborn child. As the Republic prepares to legislate on the so-called ‘Heads of the Protection of Life in Pregnancy ‘ Bill (which takes no account of the rights of the unborn child) its Prime Minister Enda Kenny chooses that most holy Shrine at Knock, (where the Mother of God appeared with St. Joseph and St. John the Evangelist,) to defend the proposed legislation in the name of the people of Ireland whose rights have been determined by their Supreme Court. The Church, Mr. Kenny says, if it has a problem, must sort it out for themselves!
Well, the Church DOES have a problem. The Church defends the right of the individual from conception to natural death, and the Holy Father (when Cardinal Bergoglio) instructed the Bishops of Argentina to refuse communion to anyone involved with the ‘abortion industry’.
Below are two extracts from Cardinal Brady and the Bishops, and from Prime Minister Kenny. Please – make your own minds up.
In the meantime pray for this country and for the many people who are prepared to speak up for the right to life.
“Cardinal Seán Brady has said the provisions proposed in the Heads of the Protection of Life in Pregnancy Bill, if passed, would permit the direct intentional killing of an innocent life.
He said that is morally unacceptable.
Speaking on RTÉ’s Six One News, Cardinal Brady said the draft legislation deprives the most fundamental right of all – the right to life of the unborn child.
He said that efforts to protect the life of a mother were commended but questioned who speaks for the life of the child.”
He went on to say that the bishops do not believe that the taking of an innocent life can ever be a remedy for suicidal ideation and what was needed for women in such a tragic situation was help, support, love, affection, care and that must come from outside.
Cardinal Brady said the scandal involving clerical child sex abuse did not exempt the bishops from the duty of proclaiming the good news of the gift of life.
Bishops issue statement on proposed legislation
Earlier, the Catholic Bishops of Ireland said the Protection of Life in Pregnancy Bill represents a dramatic and morally unacceptable change to Irish law.
In a statement, they said the bill was unnecessary to ensure that women receive “the life-saving treatment they need during pregnancy”.
They said: “The deliberate decision to deprive an innocent human being of life is always morally wrong.
“The Bill also appears to impose a duty on Catholic hospitals to provide abortions.
“This would be totally unacceptable and has serious implications for the existing legal and Constitutional arrangements that respect the legitimate autonomy and religious ethos of faith-based institutions.
“It would also pose serious difficulties for the conscientious beliefs of many citizens.”
Speaking on RTÉ’s The Week in Politics, Mr Harris said that Mr Bruton led one of six Governments that had failed to legislate for the X-case which, he said, was a luxury Taoiseach Enda Kenny did not have.
“Women can’t wait any longer, unborn babies can’t wait any longer, medical experts can’t wait any longer to have the clarity that all three deserve, and that’s exactly what this bill is about,” he added.
Separately, Minister of State Kathleen Lynch said the planned legislation was very restrictive and clear in its intent.
If the Government was to go any further in legislating for abortion, that would be an issue for the people, she added.
Catholicism Pure & Simple 
Unborn babies cannot wait – looks like Enda Life knows how to end their wait.
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If a pregnant woman commits suicide, she will answer for it in the next world. End of. If a pregnant woman threatens suicide, her incarceration and/or supervision for the duration is the only moral choice available; and if we fail to press for that, we will answer for that in the next world. End of.
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Is the solution to make abortion always a criminal act, then?
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JH says “If a pregnant woman threatens suicide, her incarceration and/or supervision for the duration is the only moral choice available”;
This is morality?
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Absolutely, Toad, unless it falls into that category of undesired outcomes known to us as the – whatchamacallit? – Aquinal doctrine of “double effect”, for which see PaulPriest passim.
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Yes, Shep (may I call you that?), I say incarceration/supervision is the ONLY (sorry, Jabba Papa, for stealing your capitalisation shtick) moral and loving way of responding to suicide threats by a pregnant woman.
Now, I like enjoy sparring with intelligent people, such as you, but really, what are you doing here? What do you hope to accomplish, on an avowedly strict Catholic blog, by taking positions contrary to doctine?
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Now, I enjoy sparring with intelligent people, such as you; but really, what are you doing here? What do you hope to accomplish, on an avowedly strict Catholic blog, by taking positions contrary to doctrine?
___
Please accept this (^) paragraph in substitution for the one immediately above it. Ta.
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JH you may call me what you like; anything at all. I won’t tell the authorities. I enjoy hearing from kindly and non-judgemental people such as you.
You may or may not be like the Good Samaritan who didn’t interrogate the unfortunate person before offering help, and not imprisonment for being in need.
JH, really, what are you doing here? What do you hope to accomplish, on an avowedly strict Catholic blog, by taking positions of punishment and brutality towards someone in deep distress?
I’d have thought you’d adopt a position in harmony with doctrine and first of all send the woman to a hospital. May I say it’s the Catholic and Christ like thing to do?
But what do I know? I bow to your humanity and corrective Christian response.
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As a former inmate of a psychiatric institution – well, strictly speaking, I was an employee, not a patient – I can tell you that sending suicidal people, pregnant or otherwise, to hospital for coercive monitoring is a form of (temporary) incarceration I fully endorse. Glad to see you agree.
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Were you Big Nurse in ‘One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest’?
I bow once more, now to your eclectic career experience.
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So, we put girls and women who have abortions, or who try to have abortions – in jail, do we JH?
Fair enough.
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So, we put girls and women who have abortions, or who try to have abortions – in jail, do we JH?
sounds like the magdalen laundries all over again, are you suggesting we sell their new born babies to catholic foreigners against their will as well?
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“Fair enough”
That’s plagiarism of the rankest sort, Toad. Sydney Lumsden. Ronnie Corbett’s father in Sorry. Circa 1980s.
And who mentioned “jail”?
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“an avowedly strict Catholic blog”
I don’t remember any of us using the word “strict” when we set up CP&S three years ago, and as the person responsible for recommending to fellow founders of the blog that we should invite Toad to comment here, I take full responsibility for ensuring it is not “an avowedly strict Catholic blog”. And to this day, my name is mud, but hey ho, life goes on…
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Andrew Rex:
I’m not quite sure, from your comment, which side of the “Magdalen” [sic] controversy you’re on. You may be personally involved. I don’t know. But I will say this: from my reading, albeit limited, about that chapter in Irish history, the laundries were not all that bad. My mother was thrown into a Protestant orphanage by her still living parents, along with her three siblings, at a very young age, because her parents were your bog standard lay-abouts. She was better off there, even though she then developed and took years to get over her habit of bedwetting, than if she’d been left with “Mom” (a prostitute) and “Dad” (a drunk).
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‘Jail’ is, in this case, shorthand for general legal punishment, JH, as I think you know.
So, again, do you think girls and women who have, or attempt to have, abortions – should be subjected to punishment (which might include jail) or not?
Can you imagine a situation where a pregnant gilt would be jailed for trying to get an abortion?
Plagiarism? You will not believe this, but Toad has never even heard of the TV(?) programme. And even if he had, would his using a commonplace, everyday, expression constitute plagiarism?
I rest my case. (More plagiarism, no doubt.)
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Rabit, I don’t why you’re no longer on the masthead of this blog, but whatever your recollection of your involvement in its set-up may be, it is now (happily, imo) “an avowedly strict Catholic blog” – at least that’s how I interpret the recent words of one of its respected principals:
“If a comment in any way contradicts the teaching of Holy Mother Church, then, it is removed.”
https://catholicismpure.wordpress.com/2013/05/03/three-prophetic-insights-from-pope-leo-xiii-that-still-speak-powerfully-120-years-later/
Got a problem with that?
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“My mother was thrown into a Protestant orphanage by her still living parents, along with her three siblings, at a very young age, because her parents were your bog standard lay-abouts. She was better off there, even though she then developed and took years to get over her habit of bedwetting, than if she’d been left with “Mom” (a prostitute) and “Dad” (a drunk).”
Jh thank you for this honesty. I have enormous admiration for your mother to have overcome such brutal treatment. These are my heroes in life, such as she. Those such as your mother have survived treatment that would have broken me.
I would only gently question your ‘bog standard layabouts’ – who can be found at any level of society. The poor are the most visible and get all the flak, where the better off are more skilled at hiding their inadequacies.
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JH, since you were not part of the group from the DT blog who set up this blog, it does not surprise me you are unaware of the history: it was I who saved the blog from control by Mundabor. But in my remarks above, I was not making a serious point anyway.
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“Bog standard layabout,” Is a reasonably accurate description of Toad.
Nothing to get offended about, he suggests. Almost a compliment, where he comes from.
Takes all sorts, dunnit?
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Yes, I agree with that. Mundabor is very much an acquired taste. Same as Toad. But I’ll take the Eyetie over Mr Carpet Slippers any day.
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“But I’ll take the Eyetie over Mr Carpet Slippers any day.”
A sentiment expressed with your customary style, delicacy, and wit, JH – and one with which we can all only wholeheartedly agree.
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“the Eyetie”: 🙂
I only favour the very few with a full face-on laughing emoticon, Toad. You can die now, a happy man. I guess the powers-that-be here won’t countenance my favourite renditions of Negro poetry?
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“But why in heaven’s name isn’t he at home this very moment, — with a wife and carpet-slippers and a large-size bottle of paregoric on his mantelpiece, — instead of here, grinning like a fool over some blatant indecency?”
The Cords of Vanity A Comedy of Shirking
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“I guess the powers-that-be here won’t countenance my favourite renditions of Negro poetry?”
Your guess is sure to be better than either Toad’s or Rabit’s, or even Old Shep’s, JH CP&S is, after all, a strictly Catholic blog, so strictly Catholic Negro poems ought to be just tickety-boo, as far as Toad can see (More plagiarism. Through The Looking Glass, this time.)
But what about Abortion and Punishment? (Dostoevsky)
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Toad,“Tickety-boo” and its related slang – “copacetic” are more part of Canadian vernacular than American or Brit, Lewis Carroll notwithstanding, but then, you used to live in Toledo, Ohio, 100 kms from the border, and should know that.
I read Crime and Punishment about three years ago; but can’t remember an abortion episode in it. I’m sure there wasn’t one. Are you thinking of von Hayek’s Road to Serfdom, perchance? I know, let’s ask Intrepid!
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You’ve gone to your beds, or futons, I guess. This end-of-life video may interest you tomorrow:
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…not a video. I forget, if I ever knew, what these things are called. Anyway, hope some gain from it.
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All very well, JH, but it seems you are, consciously or not, now avoiding the grave issue which you originally raised.
So, one more once (Plagiarised from Count Basie, ‘April in Paris’):
,
‘Jail’ is, in this case, shorthand for general legal punishment, JH, as I think you know.
So, again, do you think girls and women who have, or attempt to have, abortions – should be subjected to punishment (which might include jail) or not?
Can you imagine a situation where a pregnant gilt would be jailed for trying to get an abortion?
And…It is not wholly necessary to have lived in Toledo, Ohio, in order to have acquired a smattering of ignorance about some matters. Certainly it helps.
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One more time..
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Sniff. I prefer this springtime tune by the Mills Brothers:
But concerning pregnant women who threaten suicide, for such a person to be “sectioned”, as they say over here, in a mental health institution for the duration, is not equivalent to “jail time”. As for women who do have abortions, I think jail time should be an option available to the judge and/or jury, not as a mandatory punishment, but as an option. I sure everyone has heard horror stories of women who blithely have multiple abortions – like 5 or 6?
And if I accused you of plagiarism, I did so in jest, as you must have known. Fair enough?
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Fair enough, indeed, JH.. And I appreciate the fact that you are prepared to speak your mind clearly on these ticklish issues, be it abortion, plagiarism or The Mills Brothers.
But I still rather doubt any women has abortions ‘blithely.’ It is a serious and invasive operation, not like a your nails done. And yes, I’d have to doubt the mental health of she who had five.
To paraphrase Lady Bracknell: “To have one abortion is unfortunate. To have five begins to look like carelessness.” (Flippancy charge coming up, no doubt. Oh, well. You see what I mean.)
I knew a girl who opted to have one years ago, and she was scared.
Rightly, I think.
I’m also inclined to let the issue go on CP&S. Hopeless gulf.
I believe there are sometimes – infrequently, certainly – less worse options than abortion.
But I’m in a minority of one here. (cliche!) Dare I say, fair enough? Yes.
Oh, and anyone who doesn’t want to participate in the abortion process should not be penalised. I wouldn’t want to be involved in it myself, for sure. But then, I couldn’t kill a healthy chicken to eat.
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“I still rather doubt any woman has abortions ‘blithely’”
Really, Toad? Don’t let’s talk about 5 abortions. Let’s discuss instead the woman who’s had fifteen of her babies terminated. Has written a book about it. She looks pretty happy in her publicity photo, don’t you think? Not the least bit suicidal. I very much doubt she’s the only witch who does that sort of thing. Lock her up. Throw away the key.
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Agreed. At what number do we start incarcerating?
And, at what number do they start writing possibly profitable books about it?
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1. One abortion should carry the threat of jail time.
2. You’re clearly a well read man, Toad. Look at your Dreiser, Hemingway, Faulkner, Irving et al, for the treatment of abortion by best selling authors.
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Aren’t we going to have to build a lot of new female jails? Might not be a bad idea.
And can we confidently expect to see a resurgence of the back-street abortionist?
Toad – let it go!
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