Lectio Divina: Solemnity of the Holy Trinity – Divine Love and Human Love

From Zenit
By Monsignor Francesco Follo

 From the Cross to the Trinity

The entire Most Holy Trinity is involved in Love and by Love with the Cross of Christ. Many antique pictures represent the Father’s arms holding the Crucifix. For example in Masaccio’s painting (in the church of Santa Maria Novella in Florence) the Holy Spirit in the form of a dove is between the head of the Father and the head of Christ crowned by thorns. It is true! Between the Father and the Son there is a mysterious communion of love. For this reason Jesus from the cross could ask without hesitation: “Father, forgive them, they know not what they do.” (Lk 23:34). Between Father and Son there is a mysterious spiritual communion of Love! For this reason the dying Jesus could declare with filial trust: “Father, into your hands I commend my spirit” (Lk 23:46). From this moment the humanity of Christ, permeated by the act of Love that unites from eternity the Son to the Father, has become a source of filial life for all the ones who open themselves to Jesus in the humility of faith: “But to those who did accept him he gave power to become children of God, to those who believe in his name, who were born not by natural generation nor by human choice nor by a man’s decision but of God”. (Jn 1:12-13)

If God is like that, if this is the true way in which He saves us (and I assure you that is true!) Trinity is not a faraway mystery of no consequence in our life. These three divine persons are “intimate” in our life. They are not beside us like a wife, a husband, children or friends, but inside us. They “live in us” (Jn 14:23).

Saint Francis of Assisi gives us a big example of how the Cross is the way to the Trinity. Contemplating the Word incarnated and crucified, the great Saint lived the love of the God-Trinity that donates himself to him and answered back with complete dedication.

Changed in his heart, Saint Francis became similar to Christ even with his body receiving the stigmata. Taken by the Spirit among the lepers, the Saint of Assisi shared the mercy that he had received from the Father full of mercy. Saint Francis understood and now makes us understand that the death of Christ is the gift that He makes of his Spirit. If Christ gives us his Spirit we become members of Christ and live his Presence.

On the Cross, Jesus gave his Spirit but at that time only few received it because only few (the Virgin, Saint John and Mary Magdalene) had stayed by the Cross. On the day of the Resurrection when He entered into the Supper-room, He gave it to the twelve:

“Receive the Holy Spirit”. Then He gave it to the Church on the day of Pentecost: “It will spread on all” said Saint Peter. It is a continuous growing of the gift, the same that had been given even to us and that makes us “Temple of the Trinity”.

The God nearby

The liturgy of tomorrows Mass reminds us that God is not an impersonal God detached and far away from us. “Merciful and gracious is the LORD, slow to anger, abounding in mercy” (Ps 103:8), “gracious and merciful and abounding in love and fidelity” (Ex 34:6). The Lord doesn’t despise the dust of which we are made, but feeds us with mercy and forgiveness. Let’s proclaim with great joy: Blessed be God, the Father and his only Son and the Holy Spirit because God is the Father that has loved us so much that He offered us his Son and gave us his Spirit so that we can recognize God as infinite love.

Nothing is more true, reviving and consoling for us than the presence of the Holy Trinity in our life. Nothing can be, act or become perfect without the three divine Persons, without God. Saint Paul doesn’t hesitate to assert that “In him we live and move and have our being” (Acts 18:28)

God is near but we think that He is far away. He is into reality and into all the things and we look for Him in dreams and in impossible utopias.

The true secrets to enter in relationship with God are simplicity of heart and poverty of spirit, two attitudes that are frustrated by pride, wealth and craftiness. Jesus had said: “unless you turn and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven” (Mt 18:3) which means “if you will not be near me”. He was not joking or making fun of us. To see or not to see God depends on our eyes. If we have pure eyes we see Him; if we have impure and malevolent eyes we do not see Him. If sometimes we forget Him because of distraction or superficiality, pain and mystery reminds us of His presence.  Mystery continuously surrounds us but it is a mystery of love. It is like our mother’s womb that has kept us and has given us life.

What is more true and simpler than the womb of a woman that holds a child? How to grasp the mystery of the One who loves us?

The easiest way is to be innocent, clever and wise like children. In them there is a basic intuition given by God. However it is not enough to be little, we must also be poor. Be careful because in the Gospel to be little doesn’t mean to be crying babies or immature. To be poor doesn’t mean to wear shabby garments, broken shoes and to live in a shack. Little – in the Christian meaning – is the one who doesn’t put his confidence in what he is or in what he has but has trust in the paternity of God. Poor is the one who doesn’t consider idols what he possesses, on the contrary he feels that nothing can satisfy him except God-Love.

Trinity: a mystery that reveals God to us and reveals also who we are.

The most important thing towards Trinity is not to speculate on the mystery but to remain in the faith of the Church that is the “boat” that takes us to Trinity.

We are taken to a god that is “Lover (Father), Loved one (Son) and Love ( Holy Spirit)” (Saint Augustine). God is love and dialogue not only because He loves us and speaks to us, but also because He is a dialogue of love. This fact not only renews our understanding of God, but also the truth of our being. If the Bible continuously repeats that we must live in love, in dialogue and in communion it is because we are “image of God”. For the Christian person who knows that God is Father Son and Holy Spirit, to encounter God, to have experience of God, to speak of God and to give praise to God means to live in a constant dimension of love, dialogue and gift. Trinity is a truly luminous mystery. In revealing God, the Trinity has revealed who we are.

We find a big help to understand this revelation in the example of the consecrated Virgins. In practicing the evangelical advice of chastity, obedience and poverty these women that have given themselves entirely to God live with a particular intensity the Trinitarian nature that characterizes Christian life. The chastity of the virgins as manifestation of their dedication to God with anxiety about the things of the Lord (1 Cor 7:32-34) is a reflection of the infinite love that ties the three divine Persons into the mysterious intensity of the Trinitarian life. Their poverty lived following the example of Christ, who “became poor although he was rich” (2 Cor 8:9), becomes an expression of the total gift of himself that the three divine Persons give to each other. Their obedience carried out following the example of Christ whose food was to do the Father’s will (Jn 4:34), manifests the liberating beauty of a filial dependence not a slavish one, enriched by a sense of responsibility and animated by mutual trust that is the reflection of the loving correspondence of the three divine Persons. (John Paul II, Post-Synodal Apostolic Exhortation, Vita Consecrata, 21).

Roman Rite

Prv 8:22-31; Ps 8; Rom 5:1-5; Jn 16:12-15

Ambrosian Rite

Gen18:1-10a; Ps 104: 1Cir 12:2-6; Jn 14:21-26

About Gertrude

Sáncte Míchael Archángele, defénde nos in proélio, cóntra nequítiam et insídias diáboli ésto præsídium.
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47 Responses to Lectio Divina: Solemnity of the Holy Trinity – Divine Love and Human Love

  1. Toad says:

    “Father, forgive them, they know not what they do.” (Lk 23:34). “

    How can the words above co-exist with the doctrine of Eternal Damnation?

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  2. golden chersonnese says:

    Presumably they were forgiven, Toad? Full knowledge is required for mortal-sinning, Toad.

    Anyhow the Austrian conductor, Nikolaus Harnoncourt (in full, Count Nikolaus de la Fontaine und d’Harnoncourt-Unverzagt, a descendant of not one but two Holy Roman Emperors) appears to enjoy Trinity very much, at least musically. A jolly good Trinity Sunday to all CP&Sers. It concludes the whole Lent/Easter thing nicely.

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  3. Roger says:

    Because Man has Freewill.
    Our Lord could not save All. He could not save Judas. He cannot save those who of their own freewill choose “The world, The Flesh and The Devil”.
    The Our Father prayer is the simple but it plunges the hieghts and depths especially revealing that we have choices and free will.
    Temptations and especially inspirations that come into our minds should always be considered carefully, thought through. The sins of the flesh can be forgiven but not the sins of the spirit.
    The spirit is created by God and in that instance sees and knows God and this is why man knows there is a God.
    Love wouldn’t be Love without freewill and choice.
    Strange but true but we are especially Blessed to live in time of doubts and persecutions and temptations because we can prove our love and merit Heaven.
    Curiously it isn’t the salvation of souls that God delights over but rather those great lovers who embrace the Cross and contradictions.
    Fallen Adam through his own merits and choices has a greater love than the Adam before the Fall.
    Our Lord wanted to save the reprobate and sadly he cannot because this would take away the greatest gift we have free will.

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  4. golden chersonnese says:

    Yes, Roger, Toad wishes to take away my right to go to hell even if I want to. Now I know how Loretta felt.

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  5. johnhenrycn says:

    The sins of the flesh can be forgiven but not the sins of the spirit.

    What a load of twaddle. Or rather, quote the biblical passages from Matthew and Luke correctly, and then go on from there to provide some real exegesis instead of – what’s the word I’m looking for? – right: twaddle.
    ___
    Look, I’m not a theologian, but neither are you, and it’s not helpful coming here, trying to pass as one. I’m not being rude. I’m being honest in the hope that you, obviously a sincere Christian, will humbly recognise your limitations and give us the benefit of your real gifts, not your pretend gifts.

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  6. Toad says:

    True enough, Golden.
    Orwell, reviewing one of Greene’s works (The Heart of the Matter, possibly?) remarked that Catholics seem to regard Hell as, “..a sort of exclusive, members-only nightclub for the Catholic damned.”
    (or something like that.)
    He might have added, with Roger’s above comment in mind, “..with God as the celestial bouncer on the door.” And Toad will not personally object to your right of entry, provided you can show your membership card. (Toad’s has long since expired.)

    Interesting, the things God apparently cannot do.
    Almost omnipotent, but not quite, it would seem.

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  7. Toad says:

    JH, Toad remembers being told – centuries ago – that the only unforgivable sins were Presumption and Despair. By their intrinsic nature.
    Perhaps that’s what Roger is getting at. Though I admit I despair of him ever spelling “Capitalism,” correctly.
    Toad Hell-bound, then.
    (But Mass-bound first.)
    It’s a getting bit like conversing with an ‘I-Speak-Your-Weight’ machine. It seems to Toad.

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  8. golden chersonnese says:

    That reminds me of some TV show I saw once, Toad, in which a great old Irish parish priest was alarmed to hear that one his longest parishioners and old friend, Michael, lay dying at home and had suddenly converted to protestantism.

    When the mons then visited him to ask him why and if he had lost his mind, Michael replied, “I figured that if anyone was going to die, it would be much better that it was one of them and not one of us”.

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  9. golden chersonnese says:

    And Toad will not personally object to your right of entry, provided you can show your membership card. (Toad’s has long since expired.)

    Ah, Toad, I gather new members are always welcome. No membership application form need be submitted and all new members just self-select.

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  10. johnhenrycn says:

    …a sort of exclusive, members-only nightclub…“, says Toad:

    …which reminds me of a joke – better than Golden’s one about Australia’s convict heritage 😉

    Hindu goes to Heaven. St Peter opens the gates, welcomes him and gives him a preliminary tour:

    St Peter: “…and we put the Baptists in this room, which you will see is a pseudo-replica of the Rovers Return on Coronation Street.”

    Hindu: Very nice. But I’m not a Baptist.

    St Peter: “Of course. Now in this room, we place all the Mennonites, who on Earth never drove anything other than horses and buggies.”

    Hindu: Swell.

    St Peter: “Gunga Din, when we go by this next room, please walk very quietly on your tiptoes.”

    Hindu: Why’s that?

    St Peter: “Well, this is our Catholic Room, and they’ll be very upset to know you’re here.”

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  11. golden chersonnese says:

    I thought Peter was going to say that the Catholics thought they were the only ones there, jh.

    Great first reading at Trinity Mass today, johnhenry, from Proverbs:

    http://www.usccb.org/bible/readings/052613.cfm

    I’m still feeling the benefit of it.

    When the Lord established the heavens I was there,
    when he marked out the vault over the face of the deep;
    when he made firm the skies above,
    when he fixed fast the foundations of the earth;
    when he set for the sea its limit,
    so that the waters should not transgress his command;
    then was I beside him as his craftsman,
    and I was his delight day by day,
    playing before him all the while,
    playing on the surface of his earth;
    and I found delight in the human race . . .

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  12. johnhenrycn says:

    I was supposed to give that reading today, GH, but circumstances forbade it. A most beautiful passage. Perhaps when Year C rolls around again.

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  13. johnhenrycn says:

    GC, I meant 😦

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  14. golden chersonnese says:

    We use the same translations as Britain and Australia here, jh, and it was even better than the one the Americans use:

    Click to access readings.pdf

    . . . I was by his side, a master craftsman,
    delighting him day after day,ever at play in his presence,
    at play everywhere in his world,
    delighting to be with the sons of men.

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  15. johnhenrycn says:

    We use the New Revised Standard Version (1989), which is slightly different than than either of the above; but tell me from whence cometh your first reference to that passage?

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  16. golden chersonnese says:

    Well there’s a north-americanism right there, johnhenry, “different than”, eh?

    It’s the New Jerusalem Bible, jh, vastly superior liturgically to the first English version of my youth. Yuk!

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  17. johnhenrycn says:

    Golden, glad you said the New Jerusalem Bible is vastly superior to the first English version. I don’t have a copy of the New, but the original has this translation of verse 2 from Psalm 121 (the “from whence cometh” Psalm that I refer to above):

    “No letting our footsteps slip!
    This guard of yours, he does not doze!
    The guardian of Israel
    does not doze or sleep.”

    Talk about dozy, what? And that’s a Catholic translation (Imprimatur: +John Cardinal Heenan Westminster: 4 July 1966) for crying out loud.
    ___
    As for my ‘north-americanism’ – different than instead of different from – that’s a nice grammatical – or should I say, dialectal? – point; but I think they’ve been considered basically the same for a hundred years or more. I know, let’s ask Toad, who’s lived on both sides of the Atlantic and who, looking behind the lines of his superficial drivel, strikes me as rather well read,

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  18. Toad says:

    You could throw in “different to,” just to a add more always-useful confusion.
    I think it’s most likely a national/regional variation, of colossal global unimportance.

    My ‘solution” (if one is needed in this case, which I doubt) would be to rewrite JH’s comment as “differs from” …Shorter, neater, and – I suggest – more elegant.

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  19. kathleen says:

    JH, in your comment @ 9:15 I think you are being rather unfair to Roger, if you don’t mind me saying.
    When Roger says that the “sins of the spirit” cannot be forgiven, he is obviously referring to Jesus’ words, that those who “sin against the Holy Spirit” cannot be forgiven. (And you clearly recognise he means this passage of the Gospel anyway).
    Loads of ink has been used to try to understand what Our Blessed Lord was alluding to as these “unforgivable” sins.

    This is my two-pence worth. Well, the Holy Spirit is the Love of God; Love is All-Merciful, so any sin, no matter how wicked, will always be forgiven by the Divine Mercy of God if the penitent is sincere, EXCEPT the sin of refusing that Forgiveness and Mercy…. or doubting it. Judas? Perhaps. We really do not know who could refuse such a great gift from such a Good and Merciful Saviour. That some do refuse it though is sadly a very real possibility.

    Roger @ 8:30
    Fallen Adam through his own merits and choices has a greater love than the Adam before the Fall.”

    That is a wonderfully profound and insightful statement!

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  20. golden chersonnese says:

    I take Roger’s point too, Kathleen, that the “soul knows God”. I wish I could remember which psalms bring that out, but here’s one:
    Psalm 22:9
    Yet you brought me out of the womb; you made me trust in you, even at my mother’s breast.

    Some of the most deplorable sinners upon reforming their lives say that, when they eventually turned to the contemplation of God, they felt, or rather knew that they were discovering for the first time their real selves.

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  21. johnhenrycn says:

    “I think you are being rather unfair to Roger, if you don’t mind me saying.”

    Don’t mind at all, Kathleen, but I think he’s like a man hiding his true light under a bushel, such as Jesus speaks of. Still, he (Roger) is thick-skinned and single-minded, “and that’s a good thing”, as Martha Stewart used to say.

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  22. Roger says:

    Wordsworth tariling clouds of glory has this implict meaning that the soul knows God at the moment of its Creation and the Soul being created in Eternity has no Age. The Body is a prison to the Soul because it is fetered. God dwells in that Soul it is His Holy Temple. So a sin against the spirit is like Lucifers a rejection for ever of God. The Fallen Angel will never change its mind.
    Our Lord said that “.. in the resurrection they shall neither marry nor be married; but shall be as the angels of God in heaven. ..” Now this is very interesting because if Angels and man doesn’t marry then where is fecundity?
    If Heavens plan was to repopulate the places of the Fallen Angels by those who deserved that place through the Cross and Love then Fallen Adam and his Love and Freewill is much more deserving than Proud Fallen Lucifer.
    Man we know is flesh, spirit, soul. So the question is would man in Heaven procreate through the flesh?
    Woe to the world that kills the young under the false argument of over population because man is destined to live in Eternity! Heaven has a number of men in its plan and Thou shalt not Kill has a deep spiritual meaning that goes way beyond the Flesh.
    The real problem is looking backwards with the Faith. We must look forwards eyes on the Future and not a Past that has already been Judged by God. Learn from the Past but start reaching forward with your spirit!

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  23. Toad says:

    “That some do refuse (God’s divine mercy) though is sadly a very real possibility.”

    Toad doubts if he could ever be completely happy in Heaven, (assuming that unlikely outcome) knowing Judas was suffering all alone in Hell.

    But what does he know?

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  24. johnhenrycn says:

    Why not just give it a rest, Toad? I mean your angst about whether some are eternally damned or not. None know who is or isn’t in Hell. Just live the rest of your life with as much truth and kindness as you can and let the chips fall where they may. Somehow, I think that may be enough, although I don’t know for sure, which is why I’m a Catholic.

    But even in Heaven, don’t you think there may be circles and stations for which we are destined? The first shall be last, the last shall be first, the right hand of the Father…that sort of thing? So, if you end up being closer to the Father than me, will that be something you and I should grieve? Will the space prepared for me, albeit a tad further down the table, be less perfect, for me, than the space prepared for you? Is envy possible in Heaven? Even Hell may be a perfect place actually chosen by its denizens for whatever reasons they may have, and maybe, some prefer for eternity. You are not Judas Iscariot. You are notFred West. Who are you to say they’re not more content being in Hell, if that’s where they are, than anyplace else? Sometimes you sound like a bleeding heart who thinks everyone deserves, and wants, the same outcome as you.

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  25. Toad says:

    I thought who might- or might not – go to Hell was an important issue.
    But OK.
    “Who are you to say they’re not more content being in Hell, if that’s where they are, than anyplace else? “
    Sorry, JH – I didn’t realise that I had to be anyone in particular.
    But now I do.
    “But even in Heaven, don’t you think there may be circles and stations for which we are destined?”
    There well may for all we (well I, at least) know.

    However, back to boring old paedophile priests, and “gay marriage.” I suppose.

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  26. johnhenrycn says:

    I’m not the least bit interested in reading about ‘gay marriage’. But there’s an app for that, if you’re interested, which I doubt.

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  27. Roger says:

    The Blog is Holy Trinity Divine Love and Human Love.
    The point is what is Human Love? Our Lord expressly said are as the Angels in Heaven . So Human Love must be as the Angels in Heaven Love.
    If there is neither marry nor marriage then what does the world say Human Love is?
    “..For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife, and they two shall be in one flesh. ..” Adam and Eve are one flesh are they not? Eve was formed woman from the flesh of Adam and therefor although two distinct and different souls ( including free will as is proven by their separate tempting and sinning )
    The new Testament of course confirms Adam and Eve
    1 Timothy 2:13
    For Adam was first formed; then Eve.
    The Book of Tobias is excluded from the Jewish Masoretic Text but included in the Septaguint. The Catholic and Orthodox Church inlcude Tobias but the Protestant and the Jews do not.
    Tobias (Tobit) 8:8
    Thou madest Adam of the slime of the earth, and gavest him Eve for a helper.
    We will come back to this because there are very important Marian matters to be considered.
    The point we are looking at is human Love and what it is and what it isn’t.
    Now taking that Adam was formed then Eve from Adam’s flesh we should look at the Trinity The Catholic teaching is that Father begats the Son
    “..From all eternity the Father begets the Son, and the Son proceeds from the Father. From all eternity the Father and Son breathe forth the Holy Ghost..”
    Well from Adams flesh Eve was formed and they are One Flesh but distinct and separate souls and personalities.
    The comparison couldn’t be more profound and clearly intended that God from One from One formed two . God is One and three!

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  28. Roger says:

    Now Love human and Divine.
    What dismays and belittles Catholic is the contempt for Our Lady exercised again and again that plays down her role. Instead what does Heaven want?
    Our Lord taught His disciples to pray.to Our Father who Art in Heaven.
    Our Lord expressly gave Our lady to Us at the foot of the Cross.
    The Dogma of Pius XII is the Assumption of Our Lady. In Other words Our Mother who Art in Heaven.
    Our Lady is also the Immaculate (conceived with Original Sin) she is Flesh BUT whose Flesh Adams? Whose Fan hermaphroditelesh did Heaven take to form the Flesh of God Made Man?
    If Heaven wants Our Lady honoured then why isn’t she honoured as the Mother of God?
    Her Soul magnifies the Lord so it is not as if honouring her will diminish Gods Glory? On the contrary it Magnifies God.
    Our Lady is Created BUT she is spotless.
    Our Lord isn’t an hermaphrodite. He is a male. The Father is by choice of name male. The Holy Ghost concieved Our Lord in other words a male.
    So the only female example placed before is that is directly and deliberately linked to the three persons of the Trinity is Our Lady!
    Now consider the divine love and the human love as displayed between The Trinity and Our Lady.

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  29. Roger says:

    My apologies for the clear edit function errors that are there. This text editor and java scripting is buggy.I have re submitted this!

    Now Love human and Divine.
    What dismays and belittles Catholic is the contempt for Our Lady exercised again and again that plays down her role. Instead what does Heaven want?
    Our Lord taught His disciples to pray.to Our Father who Art in Heaven.
    Our Lord expressly gave Our lady to Us at the foot of the Cross.
    The Dogma of Pius XII is the Assumption of Our Lady. In Other words Our Mother who Art in Heaven.
    Our Lady is also the Immaculate (conceived with Original Sin) she is Flesh BUT whose Flesh Adams? Whose Flesh did Heaven use to form Our Lady as her flesh was formed into the God Man? The Eucharist is the Body Blood Soul and Divinity if Our Lord then this Flesh issue is profound and needs explaination.
    If Heaven wants Our Lady honoured then why isn’t she honoured as the Mother of God?
    Her Soul magnifies the Lord so it is not as if honouring her will diminish Gods Glory? On the contrary it Magnifies God.
    Our Lady is Created BUT she is spotless.
    Our Lord isn’t an hermaphrodite. He is a male. The Father is by choice of name male. The Holy Ghost concieved Our Lord in other words a male.
    So the only female example placed before is that is directly and deliberately linked to the three persons of the Trinity is Our Lady!
    Now consider the divine love and the human love as displayed between The Trinity and Our Lady.

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  30. johnhenrycn says:

    …why isn’t she honoured as the Mother of God?
    Except that she is.
    Pray for us, O Holy Mother of God,
    That we may be made worthy of the promises of Christ.

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  31. johnhenrycn says:

    Silly johnhenry, referencing the The Angelus rather than going straight to the second (?) most important Catholic prayer, The Rosary. I won’t recite the Hail Mary, Roger, as I’m sure you know it by heart.

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  32. Roger says:

    John Henryen
    I love the Hail Mary. I pray the Angelus. You might like this version
    The Angel Of the Lord declared unto Mary and she concieved by the action and grace of the Holy Ghost
    Hail Mary daughter of God the Father Full of Grace etc.
    Behold the handmaiden of the Lord Be done unto me according to Thy Word
    Hail Mary Mother of God the Son Full of Grace etc..
    And the Word was made Flesh and dwelt amonst Us
    Hail Mary Spouse of God the Holy Ghost Full of Grace etc.
    Hail Mary Temple and Tabernacle Of The Most Holy Trinity etc.

    Of course the daily Rosary and have done for 38 years.

    Fatima is the Triumph Of The Immaculate Heart Of Mary and the Immaculate Conception is the sequence that brought Redemption into this World. First came the Immaculate then the viriginal Ewe brought the spotless lamb. Our Lord comes by the same route as He came before.
    What makes Fatima so important is that the Immaculate Heart of Mary is the path and road set by Heaven to Peace. This Peace is of course Our Lord.

    I find again and again that even the most basic tenants of the faith such as Creation and the Biblical generation and lineage is doubted. Heaven and Hell is doubted. That Christianity has been dumped with pagan religions and heretical sects such as Islam. The old Prophecy is that one day with the Rosary and the Scapular that Our Lady would save the world.
    God Love the world so much he gave His only begotten Son. Our Lord loves Us so much that He gave Us His own Mother!

    Father Malachy Martin in the 1998 said that the Third Secret Of Fatima was dire and unpleasant reading he spoke of global systems.
    Fatima is about Love!! Its a warning and a solution.
    The second world war was fortold BUT the third secret was targeted for after that war! Why 1960?
    Look since 9/11 War in and around the Middle East and the rise of Islam which is connected with Our Lady of the Rosary! See the connection! Wars are punishments for Sin.
    Economic Austerity and a global banking/financial meltdown which is far from over!
    The murder of infants through Abortion vastly exceeds Hitler and Stalin and there is No sign of any remorse nor contrition. Man isn’ t changing nor turning to God.
    The exclusion of the Christianity from the Governments and the replacing of the Divine Law with Human Rights.
    In 1946 Pius XII Crowned Our Lady of Fatima as QUEEN OF THE WORLD

    “..
    Exchange between Sister Lucia and Fr. H. Rafferty, August 15, 1950:

    Fr.: Did Our Lady of Mount Carmel come at Fatima?
    Lucia: Oh, yes Father, she did.
    Fr.: Why did Our Lady come that way? … What did she mean?
    Lucia: She meant that we should wear the scapular….
    Fr.: Everyone in America believes there are four conditions of the Fatima message. First of all, we are to say the rosary every day. Secondly, we are to offer the sacrifices of our daily lives. Thirdly, we are to make communions of reparations on First Saturdays. Finally, we are to consecrate ourselves to the Immaculate Heart of Mary.
    Lucia: Oh, there is one more condition–the wearing of the scapular–the symbol of our consecration….
    Fr.: Which is more important: the saying of the daily rosary or the wearing of the scapular all of the time?
    Lucia: Father, the rosary and the scapular are inseparable. You cannot have one without having the other.
    ..”

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  33. johnhenrycn says:

    Well, Roger, you lost me after: “Of course the daily Rosary and have done for 38 years.
    …but that testament speaks volumes, and tells me that you’re more disciplined than me , not to mention you’ve been Catholic far longer than me, or the other converts who frequent this blog.

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  34. kathleen says:

    @ JH
    But seems to me you have caught us up in ‘knowledge’ and ‘discipline’ just the same dear Mountie! 😉
    Besides, there is no doubt us ‘cradle Catholics’ all too often fall into a type of lethargy, subconsciously saying, “we have The Truth, let’s just lean back and enjoy”! Were it not for our zealous, enlightened and courageous converts to the Faith (who have often undergone numerous struggles both with family and conscience to embrace Catholicism) I dread to think where the rest of us would be.

    Re your comment yesterday at 20:10 about the possible “circles and stations” in Heaven…..
    In Heaven each man (or woman) will have their capacity for joy filled to the brim, so there will be no envy nor displeasure at what is meted out to each one.
    If one has lived a very good and saintly life their capacity for happiness will be great, whereas those who just ‘scrape into Heaven’ will obviously have a smaller capacity to be filled. It’s like the difference between filling an enormous 100 gallon tank compared to a thimble.
    Everyone will be filled with the joy of being with God all the same.

    Like

  35. Roger says:

    Hi Kathleen
    Battles for the Faith Yes.
    I take very seriously Fatima and believe that the souls of millions are at stake at this time.

    Love and Heaven. Human and Divine.
    Man cannot sustain a spiritual level of Love without Grace. There is Cain and the Flesh and Abel and the spiritual. Cain leads to married priests its the Henry VIII Lust of the Flesh against the Loss of Grace. The angelic life and love requires Grace and this is the spiritual Life.

    Our Lord specifically said that in Heaven Men and woman like the angels.Like not become!!

    So its to the Angels that we go and look at the angelic hierachy”..Pope Gregory divided the nine angelic orders into three choirs, the highest choir being: thrones, cherubim, and seraphim ..”
    Now remember the Fallen Angels! Lucifer was a Seraphim. St Michael lower and Archangel.

    Now look at the saints “..St Bonaventure is called the “Seraphic Doctor”..” which is a classification of Love.
    St Francis “..a voice say to him: “This was Lucifer’s throne. Blessed Francis will occupy it in his stead.” ..”

    If the Angels are hirachical and full of Love and Man in Heaven is LIKE the Angels then it seems reasonable that in Heaven the saved are similarly organised according to their capacity for Love.
    This on the basis that a Man St Francis occupies Fallen Seraphim Lucifers Throne.

    Remember that Human nature has been raised Our Lord true Go and True Man is above the Angels. Our Lady is Queen of the Angels . So my reasoning is that Man can replace the Fallen Angels within the Heavenly hierachy intended by God.

    So I am arguing that a proper understanding is required of just what human love as God intended means human love within the Life of Grace!

    Like

  36. johnhenrycn says:

    If one has lived a very good and saintly life their capacity for happiness will be great, whereas those who just ‘scrape into Heaven’ will obviously have a smaller capacity to be filled.

    Kathleen, that strikes as a very apt explanation of how things might be ordered in Heaven.

    Like

  37. golden chersonnese says:

    JH, you and Kathleen will have to help me on that one. Who says so?

    Like

  38. johnhenrycn says:

    Dante Alighieri, for one, Golden, who is led by his beloved Beatrice through the nine heavenly spheres.

    Very special joys are granted to the martyrs, doctors, and virgins, a special proof of victories won in time of trial (Revelation 7:11; Daniel 12:3; Revelation 14:3 ). Hence theologians speak of three particular crowns, aureolas, or glorioles, by which these three classes of blessed souls are accidentally honoured beyond the rest.
    http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07170a.htm#III

    Like

  39. Toad says:

    “Very special joys are granted to the martyrs, doctors, and virgins…

    Bleedin’ class system all over again, deja vu all over again, as usual, innit?

    Nuffink wotsoever – no “Special jJoys” for the workin’ man!!!! – For the lawyer, for example!!!!!
    A kick in the pants, maybe. If he’s lucky!!!!
    (There goes Roger’s supply of screamers* for the next ten seconds.).

    If only Toad had been born a Newt – say – his inglorious ‘career’ might have been very different.
    He might even have become Editor of The Daily Telegraph, for example.
    “There’s glory for you! ”
    (Says Humpty.)
    And if only Eccles were still alive. Things would be different, all right.

    *Exclamation marks. AKA “dogs’ cocks,”

    Like

  40. Toad says:

    What a lot of rubbish, Toad.

    Like

  41. johnhenrycn says:

    *Exclamation marks. AKA “dogs’ *****,
    Sidney Lumsden: “Language, Timothy!”
    Ronnie Barker: “Sorry, father.”

    Speaking of exclamation marks, I was afflicted with one in June, I962, during our Grade 7 Class Photo Day at Hillcrest Public School. V. embarrassing. Still have it. The photo, I mean.

    Like

  42. johnhenrycn says:

    Actually, I lied. It was June, 1963. But yes, I still have it.

    Like

  43. johnhenrycn says:

    But getting back to Golden’s – and Toad’s – doubts about the existence of hierarchy in Heaven: Who can doubt that Our Lord is a conservative, and thus a great fan of Edmund Burke – who was shopped by the Duke of Newcastle, a Whig, as “a wild Irishman, a Jacobite, a papist, a concealed Jesuit” – Burke would, I believe, deny that Heaven is a perfect democracy, where all are equal or should be:

    “Never, never more, shall we behold that generous loyalty to rank and sex,
    that proud submission, that dignified obedience, that subordination of the heart, which kept alive, even in servitude itself, the spirit of exalted freedom!…It is gone, that sensibility of principle, that chastity of honour…under which vice itself lost half its evil, by losing all its grossness.”

    A paean to the Queen of France from Reflections on the Revolution in France

    Like

  44. Frere Rabit says:

    “What a lot of rubbish, Toad,” says Toad.

    Oh dear, is Toad bullying himself again with his inanities? Rabit refrains from comment.

    Like

  45. Toad says:

    Toad is obliged to bully himself. Everyone else on CP&S is so nice to him.

    Like

  46. Roger says:

    The problem is human love. The Cain and Abel illustration is a good one because it shows the differences of Charity that exists in Man. Cain is of the Earth (Flesh) and selfish appetites. Abel is that of Grace. This is from Mary Of Agreda
    “..Therefore it seems to me that I perceive in the gifts of the Holy Ghost a certain special enlightenment in which the intellect remains to a large extent merely passive as far as moving the will is concerned. In the will at the same time there is a certain perfection of its habits, which inclines it to most heroic acts in a manner far above the ordinary forces of virtuousness. As the
    movements of a stone, if another impulse beside gravity is added, are much accelerated, so the impulse of the will toward virtue is stronger and more excellent, if it is acted upon by the gifts. The gift of wisdom communicates to the soul a certain kind of taste by which it can distinguish the divine from the human without error, throwing all its influence and weight in all things against those inclinations which arise from human ignorance and folly; this gift is related to charity. The gift of intellect serves to penetrate into the understanding of divine things and gives a knowledge of them overwhelmingly superior to the ignorance and slowness of the natural intellect ; while that of science searches the most obscure mysteries and creates perfect teachers to oppose human ignorance ; these two gifts are related to faith. The gift of counsel guides, directs and restrains man within the rules of prudence in his inconsiderate activity. It is closely related to this its own virtue. That of fortitude expels disorderly fear and gives strength to human weakness ; it is superadded to the cardinal virtue of that name. Piety makes the heart kind, takes away its hardness and softens it against its own impiety and stubborness; it is related to religion. The fear of God lovingly humiliates the soul in opposition to pride, and is allied to humility. ..”
    Mention has been made of especial charisms identified with martyrs, doctors and virgins but this is just another way of seeing the Holy Ghost acting in the Soul in other words the Divine Love imparted (as far as possible) within the human soul.
    Especial reference has to be made to virginity because in Cain the human reasoning pertains and we see what we are seeing in these times which leads to married priests, woman priests, gay etc.. In Abel Grace rules the flesh and the Holy Ghost and His gifts dominate.
    Father Malachy Martin (who had read the third secret of Fatima) in 1998 said stunningly that Catholics had lost Grace! Its another way of saying Apostacy off course.
    You just have to look at Luther and the Reformation to see how the human reasoning surplants Divine Wisdom in Fallen Churchs.
    Jokes are made of the sexual pervertions and religious in these blogs without seeing or understanding that these are signs of the Church of Man seen by Emmerich. The Church that excludes the Divine and is of human reasoning (Cains Church)
    There is another but hidden Church where the Divine Acts and remains(Abels Church)
    The mediation on Love is a very good approach to seeing Cain and Abel played out in Our Day. Cain is trying to slay Abel!!

    Like

  47. kathleen says:

    Golden @ 17:34 yesterday
    I saw your question before closing the computer yesterday, but had no time to reply just then – sorry.

    So why do some people have a greater capacity for happiness in Heaven than others?

    As I have heard it explained, the more we labour for God on Earth, and the more we give up our own ambitions in order to focus on others, the more fulfilled we will feel in Heaven.
    As Roger also says (in a rather long-winded way ;-)), the more we Love, the greater capacity we have to Love even more. Love begets Love.

    For, in Heaven it seems, there are different rewards for different people.

    (John 14:2) “In my father’s house, there are many mansions.”

    St. Augustine and other Church Fathers said that the many mansions refer to different levels of reward in Heaven for different levels of merit acquired by believers on Earth.

    St. Thomas Aquinas agreed, writing: “The more one will be united to God the happier will one be.”

    The Catechism of Trent puts it this way: [For in my Father’s house, says our Lord, there are many mansions,” in which shall be distributed rewards of greater and of less value according to each one’s deserts. He who soweth sparingly, shall also reap sparingly: and he who soweth in blessings, shall also reap blessings]
    “ Now this I say: He who soweth sparingly shall also reap sparingly: and he who soweth in blessings shall also reap blessings.” (2 Cor 9:6)

    Just as a person who longs and waits to be reunited with a spouse during a war, we on Earth have been separated from the One who loves us more than anyone else (due to the fall of Adam and Eve). Our final destiny and fulfillment is with God. True and everlasting happiness can only be possible with Him. This is what our lives are leading up to. This is what we are supposed to be preparing for by being loyal to Him in all that we do. If you ever feel restless, it’s because you are not yet with Him.
    (Some of the above from different Catholic sources on the internet.)

    What is very important to remember though, is that every person will be FILLED TO CAPACITY with the Love of God….. so although that capacity may vary considerably from person to person, everyone having received their fill, every person will be totally satisfied.

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