Catholic England

http://www.churchmilitant.tv/daily/?today=2013-05-08

Another ‘wake-up’ call from Michael Voris – this time reporting on Catholicism in England. Whilst it may be clear that many of Voris’s claims are undoubtedly true (although the percentage of Catholics is probably well over 8%, and nearer 9% of the population) I think he may be unaware of the large zealous young Catholic population of the country, who are anything but faint-hearted when it comes to living their Faith. These youngsters (and even the ‘not-so-young’) are traditional, knowledgeable and passionate about their Catholic Faith. Many of them are members of the Juventutem Movement http://www.juventutem.co.uk/ 

As the ‘laodicean’ church adherents start to diminish in numbers and disappear (“…because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold, not hot, I will begin to vomit thee out of my mouth”), for they fail to attract the young to the Faith, those who are traditional – thus faithful  Catholics – are definitely on the increase. The ones that marry tend to have large families, and vocations to the religious life are also forthcoming among them. 

This is the article in the Economist Michael Voris refers to:

http://www.economist.com/news/international/21568357-its-trendy-be-traditionalist-catholic-church-traditionalist-avant-garde

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14 Responses to Catholic England

  1. Roger says:

    Traditional means Apostolic. The twin rocks, scripture and Sacred Tradition these are the Foundations of the Faith.
    Vatican II wasn’t Dogmatic but Pastoral.
    Understand that no Council can go against the Sacred Tradition of the Church since this would destroy the Church’s foundations.
    You cannot have the Faith of Our Fathers without following sacred Tradition.

    John 10:27
    My sheep hear my voice: and I know them, and they follow me.

    Kathleen you are demonstrating here this Truth that Our Lord’s voice is heard through scared tradition! and the sheep hear this and follow!

  2. Hard to hear reality as so brutally put by Michael. It’s up to us as individuals to stand up and be counted in this no matter what the figures. I feel a little side-lined by the 18-35’s bracket…no mention of the mature (35-50’s) Christian soldiers who seek nourishment from Tradition and who fight for tradition to remain firmly embedded.
    Secularism certainly pips Christianity to the finish line here in England, but that’s only because many don’t know the truth of the Faith. Much work needs doing in the vineyard.

  3. Roger says:

    Its all about weakness.
    Nothing is attained by weakness and softness. Peter wasn’t easy going neither was Paul.
    Our Lord needs holy energy. We start by humbling ourselves. Tackle Self its your enemy. Distrust your own strength. Once humbled, then ask for Gods protection! then, with His Holy strength advance.
    Neither secularism nor materialism nor the Gates of Hell can stand before the humble under Gods Protection.
    St Teresa said I and God are a majority.
    Trust not in self but humility and permit God to use you as his instrument! Let Christ live in you and use you. Then watch as Christ transforms England.
    Begin with Self its your enemy. Let Christ live in you! Become the vessels of Grace that God intended. Be his hands, His tongue, his eyes.
    This is the way of the saints! The way of the Cross , The way of Love.

  4. golden chersonnese says:

    Kathleen, something very wrong with Voris’s Liverpool Archdiocese figures, surely. He says it “has gone from 60 parishes to less than half at 27”. But it had over 200 parishes in 2007. Simply not credible.

    Did you see these comments by Joseph Shaw? They contain some recent stats and charts for England and Wales..

    http://www.lms.org.uk/resources/statistics-from-the-catholic-directory

  5. Laura says:

    Great post, Roger. Thanks.

  6. Roger says:

    England has antiquity and precedence over France and Spain.

    “..the four Church councils of Pisa 1409, Constance 1417, Sienna 1424 and Basle 1434, mention that “the Churches of France and Spain must yield in points of antiquity and precedence to that of Britain as the latter Church was founded by Joseph of Arimathea ..”

    Melanies secret 1846 La Salette expressly names these four Nations of the Church France, Italy, Spain and England . I puzzled over this for many years before realising that this was in accordance with the Holy Church Councils! These four named countries were the foundations of Roman Catholic Holy Empire built. See how the sacred Traditions are recognised by Heaven!

    “..‘France, Italy, Spain and England will be in war; blood will flow in the streets; Frenchman will fight with Frenchman, Italian with Italian; subsequently there will be a general war which will be appalling. For a time, God will no longer be mindful of France or Italy, because the Gospel of Jesus Christ is no longer known. ..”

  7. Toad says:

    When Toad was young, in the forties and fifties, his local church had standing room only at the main Sunday high mass, and three other, well-attended, masses as well.
    Now, it seems, we value quality over quantity. Very proper too.
    I have a theory that one of the several reasons (a lesser one, if anything, to be sure) for the European decline in Catholicism is the use of monarchy in its symbolism. Kings and queens no longer command much respect, to put it mildly.
    Hard to suggest what’s to be done about that, if indeed such is the case.

  8. JabbaPapa says:

    Kathleen, something very wrong with Voris’s Liverpool Archdiocese figures, surely. He says it “has gone from 60 parishes to less than half at 27″. But it had over 200 parishes in 2007. Simply not credible.

    gc, are you being deliberately disingenuous ?

    Are you unaware of the amalgamation of thousands and thousands of former parishes in the West into so-called “super-parishes” ?

    The number of parish churches in any diocese in the West is likely to be FAR superior to the number of parishes.

  9. kathleen says:

    @ Golden

    As I admit to being rather an ignoramus on this subject of the number of “parishes” as opposed to “super-parishes” in the West… I shall keep quiet. 😉 However, I think the figures, whichever way one looks at them, are disquieting.

    Joseph Shaw’s statistics for figures in the UK on Mass attendance and vocations to the priesthood are equally worrying! This may be why we have an increasing number of priests coming here from other countries outside the UK.
    Truthfully though, when I see the Church packed full for Sunday Mass, pilgrimages, parish talks, processions etc. all well attended, and without (naturally) being able to know the state of the whole country’s situation, I still find it hard to be really pessimistic for the future for the Catholic Church in the UK. I believe it is as Michael Voris says, the more liberal, happy-clappy crowd who are having the problems in drawing in the faithful!

    You know, I think Toad makes a valid point when he cheekily talks about “quality” over “quantity”. No one nowadays attends Mass just out of a sense of habit or duty, but because they really love the Lord and want to take part in the Holy Sacrifice. When Toad was a tadpole (probably before we were born ;-)) things might have been different.

  10. kathleen says:

    @ 1catholic salmon
    “Secularism certainly pips Christianity to the finish line here in England, but that’s only because many don’t know the truth of the Faith. Much work needs doing in the vineyard.”

    Yes, a lot more should be done to properly catechise people – I quite agree with you (and Roger). How can anyone love anything (or Anyone) if you are ignorant about them?
    The teaching of the Faith, that suffered so much in the post VII period, is picking up again, Deo gratias, but it will need generations to make up for damage wrought by the mistakes of those former decades.

    I also agree that we talk a lot about the young (the under 35 yr. olds) and the old (who were taught their Faith well and look back with nostalgia to that period), but not much is said about those of middling age (i.e. roughly 40 to 60 I’d say) who are often the mainstay of many parishes.

  11. golden chersonnese says:

    I am sorry, Jabba. my experience of parish amalgamations has been limited to two parishes doing so, not 9 parishes as Mr Voris seems to be indicating.

  12. Roger says:

    As well as Fatima remember Leo XIII (St Michael exorcism prayers?) and the permission to sift the Church for 100 years. To see and make sense of the 20th century we really do need to look back to probably 15 or 16 century. Look at how Christendom has been chopped back. The Vatican as a City State is a modern idea. Thatan is permitted to up his game e Imprisoning of the Popes isn’t a knew idea on the contrary attempts to seize the Spiritual power of the Popes is a recurring theme in papal history.
    In 1820 Emmerich was shown with approx 2 hours to go before it set! What follows Day? Night of course.
    Now consider at the same time as Leo XIII’s vision of Satans sifting he also had England Consecrated to St Peter. Look at 20th century now and think of this sifting and what it would mean and what we should expect to see!
    Fatima lifted the veil with miracle of biblical proportions! but the Law of free Will requires that Satan is permitted to Up his game!
    Look at the extrodinary 20th century! look at it the rapid growth of technology and science especially out of the Wars. Consider also Our Lady of Good Success and Mother Mariana (victim soul for the 20th century) .
    Now once we see this is a 100 years of tempting and sifting it should change our understanding and perspective of the State of the Church.
    Also consider that the secrets of Fatima are also bound to this sifting and testing.
    The LIE is that Satan doesn’t exist! Evolution which was considered by the ancients! The separation of the Church and State because what is the State if it is not Society. This false idea has the Church left to God and the world to the Devil! The Devil lost his control over this world at the Crucifixion!
    Understand that what looks like decline is sifting!! Do not yield one inch of the Faith!
    Been a good discussion here I think!

  13. Pingback: Catholic England. | 1catholicsalmon

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