Traditional “Mass of All Ages” is a Contemplative Foretaste of Heaven

from: http://www.traditionalcatholicpriest.com

Thomas Aquinas states that the highest spiritual perfection is the contemplative – active life.  But the contemplative spiritual life is superior to the active religious life.  What this means is that those who spend their time in a quiet life of union with God is superior to those who live in the world actively doing christian charity.   Again, to put it in another way, is to say that the cloistered nun who prays and works in silence is a superior way of praying than a religious sister who prays and is active in running a hospital.  But the greatest way of pleasing God, in a life of prayer, is contemplative – active.  This would be like St. Francis who would spend half a year in prayer and penance and the other half preaching and penance.  More so, he would be in an attitude of prayer and mystical union with God both when he was in the cave and when he was out in the world preaching.

images 9St. Paul says in his famous passage on love: 1 Corinthians 13:8 “But when that which is perfect is come, that which is in part shall be done away.”  We will be actively serving God in preaching here in this life, but our contemplation of God and union with Him will always be part of our heavenly reality.

You may not agree with Jesus on this issue.  I say Jesus because He was the one who affirmed Mary’s prayerful attention given to listening to Him and the scolding Martha received for being active in the Holy Gospel of Luke 10:38-42. 

“Now it came to pass as they went, that he entered into a certain town: and a certain woman named Martha, received Him into her house.  And she had a sister called Mary, who sitting also at the Lord’s feet, heard his word.  But Martha was busy about much serving.  Who stood and said: Lord, hast thou no care that my sister hath left me alone to serve?  speak to her therefore, that she help me.  And the Lord answering said to her: Martha, Martha, thou art careful and art troubled about many things: But one thing is necessary.  Mary hath chosen the best part, which shall not be taken away from her.”

CustodiaDavid says it well in the psalm 45:11 “Be still and see that I am God.”

St. Augustine (De Verb. Dom. Serm. ciii) says “Not–Thou hast chosen badly, but–She has chosen better.  Why better?  Listen–because it shall not be taken away from her.  But the burden of necessity shall be at length be taken from thee: whereas the sweetness of truth is eternal.”

The first new commandment is to Love God with all your heart, mind, strength and soul.  So the contemplative life of a loving prayer in union with God is what is asked for by God.

The second new commandment is to love your neighbor as yourself.  So, the active life of charity to others, is secondary.

Misa_con_ngelesBoth are commanded by God, but God comes before created creatures.  If you do not love God and have a contemplative prayer life, you will quickly give up charity of neighbor or end up doing it without love and only as a social worker for pay.

I am clarifying all of this for a very very serious reason.  The “Mass of All Ages” or the Holy Tridentine Mass is often disliked and by many hated because:

1) they do not understand Latin

2) they are not actively involved like in reading and giving out Holy Communion

3) it is quiet and a lot of kneeling

4) can not hear the priest

5) have to kneel down and receive Jesus on the tongue

6) there is no hip hop make me feel good upbeat music

7) there is no holding hands, shaking hands and clapping

8) the congregation does not respond to the prayers

These people are absolutely correct in what is not in the Latin “Mass of all Ages”.  But they hate it because they have never experienced or value contemplative prayer and the foretaste of heaven.  In heaven, as seen in the Book of Revelation, is ADORATION OF GOD and the SLAIN LAMB OF GOD.  All cast down their crowns and adore.  The angels, saints and martyrs adore adore adore in silence.  Yes the Angels will remind us we are in the presence of God as the sing: “Sanctus Sanctus Sanctus”.  ”Holy Holy Holy are you God of All Creation.  Heaven and earth are full of your GLORY.  Hosana in Highest”.  We say or sing this in every mass to remind us we should be experiencing Heaven there.

So when we spend an hour a day, or a week, of adoration in front of Jesus in the Holy Sacrament of the Altar, we are not active.  We kneel and sit in adoration.  We do not need to be doing anything but be present heart to HEART with Jesus.  Maybe you have your favorite prayers, or pray the Holy Rosary, but the more perfect contemplative way to be present is in loving adoration is without words heart to HEART.  This is not appreciated in a over active, frenzied world we live in.

MailMost catholics have never heard about the contemplative way of life.  There are very few monasteries where you can visit monks and nuns and see them live a life of prayer and silence.

Where can anyone experience silence anymore?  We run away from silence and being alone because we might hear our consciences telling us of who we really are and how little charity we really have.  We will feel our true loneliness and longing for God that we have squished out in our self-centered lives.  Go go.  Do do. Buy by.  Shop shop.  TV tv.  Music music.  But no silence and sitting still, because it is foreign to us and uncomfortable.

So we will not be happy in Heaven where there is adoration of God instead ourselves.  Heaven is quiet except for the loving presence of the Mystery of God and the songs of angels instead of sex love songs of selfish people.  Most Catholics will find heaven very boring and hate it just like they do the boring Holy Sacrifice of the “Mass of All Ages”.

coronat-fra-angelicoIf you are open to pleasing God and not yourself, recognize that the world teaches you to only do what is pleasing and comfortable.  Not, as St. Francis said in many of his writings, to seek the path of holiness through a life of penance and prayerful contemplation.  Go to the “Holy Mass of All Ages” as a humble follower of Jesus and just be there with Him.  Do not seek human pleasure there.  Go because you want to love and Adore Jesus.  Is it too much to ask; to Give Jesus one hour of your week in silent adoration where you are not the center of the Holy Mass, but God.  If you go in gratitude for all God has given you you will leave a greater person filled with God, love and interior peace.  We who have discovered this are so so fortunate.  We are practicing being in the presence of God for all eternity in Heaven.  Then at some Holy Latin Mass you may actually begin to experience real contemplation and be transported to Heaven.  That is why it is called “the Most Beautiful Thing This Side of Heaven”.

sepia-suscipeIf you can not see this, give your self time.  But realize the problem is not with the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, but with our self-centered catholicism we have been practicing.  All the saints through out history, up till 44 years ago, loved the great treasure of the Latin Mass.  We are not more evolved then they were way back 44 years ago.  NO! They were humble people who loved and adored God in contemplation at the Holy Mass and outside the Holy Mass.  May we try to be like the saints.

About Gertrude

Sáncte Míchael Archángele, defénde nos in proélio, cóntra nequítiam et insídias diáboli ésto præsídium.
This entry was posted in Liturgy and tagged , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink.

30 Responses to Traditional “Mass of All Ages” is a Contemplative Foretaste of Heaven

  1. Toad says:

    “If you do not love God and have a contemplative prayer life, you will quickly give up charity of neighbour or end up doing it without love and only as a social worker for pay.”

    Do we really believe that social workers are only in it for the money? Uncharitable thought.

    Then the writer goes on to talk about many people ‘hating’ the Tridentine mass.
    Hate?
    Some people may prefer the new style Mass. But does that automatically make them ‘hate’ the other one?
    ‘Hate’ is a very fashionable word on CP&S.
    (Along with ‘persecution.’)

    “Most Catholics will find heaven very boring and hate it…” Tiresome, inaccurate nonsense, surely? And they’ve got to get there first.

    Maybe ‘hate’ means not to everyone’s taste, these days?

    Like

  2. The Raven says:

    Toad

    One only has to read the “Pray Tell” blog to find people in a significant position of authority whose animus against the Old Mass is sufficiently absolute to deserve the name “hate”.

    I doubt that many of the people in the pews will feel quite the same way, as they’re unlikely to have had the opportunity to experience the Old Mass.

    I suspect that, to some extent, the author of this piece is having a very sly dig at the attitudes and opinions of the privileged minority who do their best to ensure that the Old Mass is pushed to the outermost margins of Catholic life.

    Like

  3. kathleen says:

    What a exquisite and thought-provoking article by Fr. Peter Carota, that plunges us deep into the sublime mystery and beauty of the “Traditional Mass of All Ages”! Father has laid out so many of the treasures of this Holy Mass, and identified so accurately the criticisms of those who have not learned to love it.
    He has also pricked our conscience (or at least, mine) into what is wrong with us today in this “over active, frenzied world we live in”, and where putting the centre on God in silence and contemplation, instead of ourselves and our bloated egos, is truly “the better part”.

    There is just one thing he says that I do not agree with…
    So we will not be happy in Heaven where there is adoration of God instead ourselves. Heaven is quiet except for the loving presence of the Mystery of God and the songs of angels instead of sex love songs of selfish people. Most Catholics will find heaven very boring and hate it just like they do the boring Holy Sacrifice of the “Mass of All Ages”.

    No. There is only happiness and joy in Heaven, where every soul shall be filled with God (each according to the merits of their lives on Earth). No one could possibly be “bored” or desirous of ungodly whims in Paradise.
    That is why we have Purgatory, where all imperfections are ‘purged’ away. Some may need to be there for quite a while to get many corners knocked off and made smooth, so that their only desires will be those in conformity with the Divine Will. Then the one great joy and hope of the suffering souls in Purgatory is their knowledge that they will finally, one day, be with God.

    Like

  4. Toad says:

    “One only has to read the “Pray Tell” blog to find people in a significant position of authority whose animus against the Old Mass is sufficiently absolute to deserve the name “hate”.”

    Well, if you say so, Raven.
    Seems an odd thing to get steamed up about.
    “But it takes all sorts, dunnit?” as Augustine used to chuckle.

    (Toad will pass on the ‘Pray Tell’ blog. For now.)

    Like

  5. Roger says:

    There is a confusion between Paradise and Heaven. Genesis tells of Paradise and the understanding is that Enoch and Elias (who did not die) are there and will be the two witnesses that return as per Apocalpyse. Our Lord confirmed that Elias coming and in that time (before the Apoc was written) refered to St John the Baptist. Adam and Eve were active in Paradise,
    The Heaven of the Beatific Vision is beyond mans comprehension.
    The Mass isn’t a public spectacle it is the perpetual sacrifice making reparation to God for Sin it requires a priest who is the mediatory between men and God. This is the Church instituted by Our Lord which has a man sacramentally ordained to be a mediator. The secular State has no especial sacrament although monarchs are anointed. The Reformers placed the State above the Faith and we can say that this world today is judging Christ in exactly the same way as was doen 2000 years ago.
    The Mass requires a priest who is consecrated to God.

    Like

  6. kathleen says:

    “There is a confusion between Paradise and Heaven.

    Roger,
    Are you sure there is really a difference between Heaven and Paradise that Our Blessed Lord talks about?

    Yes, I know that the “Garden of Eden” where Adam and Eve lived is often referred to as “Paradise”, and that this is not the same as Eternity in “Heaven” where faithful souls go after their earthly life, but where does the idea that Enoch, Elias etc. (and presumably you are thinking of the vision of the Transfiguration) were not already in Heaven when the Apostles saw them? I’m confused.

    For instance, Jesus said to the Good Thief: “This day thou shalt be with Me in Paradise”. I have never heard it said that Our Blessed Lord was not referring to Heaven.

    Like

  7. Toad says:

    “For instance, Jesus said to the Good Thief: “This day thou shalt be with Me in Paradise”.”

    Christ was speaking in Aramaic, I believe – which was then translated into what – Greek, Latin, both? before being translated into English.
    Maybe the words for Paradise and Heaven are the same in some, or all, of those other languages. Maybe not.
    As Roger rightly infers, there is confusion about a great many things.

    Best not get ‘carried away,’ eh?

    Like

  8. Roger says:

    Hi Kathleen
    As Toad points out there is confusion. But Our lord clearly said to St Dismus This Day Thou Shalt be with me in Paradise. The Church and the Fathers have Our Lord going into what is called the bussom of Abraham because Heaven wasn’t open.
    Paradise is a definate place or state and not the same as the beautific vision Adam ad Eve were expelled but there is no reason why God can’t permit saints entry into Paradise especially if they are confirmed in Grace. We have such a small perspective of Creation!
    Its good to contemplate a place where man can walk smell, eat, touch, see , hear, talk isn’t that how man was created? This place is a place of penance under the yoke of Orignal Sin and distinct from the garden of delights.
    Ascension is seen as the Great Day of Our Lord as it were opening the doors of into Heaven.
    This is where Contemplation comes in savouring and wondering. You see the Church has neglected Dogmas and yet the Holy Ghost expressly is to open up the Deposit of the Faith.

    Like

  9. Roger says:

    Oh Kahleen please don’t be confused. Just see that we have a very small understanding of things. Elias and Enoch didn’t die, the opinion is that they will return to face Anti Christ . That they are the two martyrs in the Apocalpyse.
    They are confirmed in Grace but are still alive. Josephus (History Of The Jews) says that Moses didn’t die? There are more things in Heaven and Earth than men dream off!
    The road of the saints is onwards and upwards , it looks folly, looks harsh. look narrow but it helps us overcome Self and frees Our spirits to soar and rise to contemplate Creation.
    The Holy Mass is essential to the reparation of Sin (I make no distinction in time or place for Sin) and it is the priest celebrant that offers the chalice and the host and in his communion the consumation of the sacrifice is completed. They danced, blasphemed against Our Lord and Our Lady at Calvary and there are those intent on doing the same insult today.

    Like

  10. kathleen says:

    Thank you Roger – you are very kind to try to explain this to me.
    However, apart from Paradise sometimes being used to describe the Garden of Eden (and this of course is different) I still think we are talking about one and the same place: Heaven is Paradise. The Catechism of the Catholic Church does not distinguish between the two.

    You raise a good point about the earlier saints having to await the opening of the ‘Doors’ to Heaven until Our Lord Jesus Christ’s Glorious Resurrection, but do not forget that there is no such thing as Time in the next world.
    Jesus did say: “In my House there are many mansions”, which could indicate a type of waiting period before contemplating the Beatific Vision for these earlier faithful souls… but I have never heard it taught that this would not still be Heaven.

    Like

  11. Roger says:

    Hi Kathleen
    The Restoration of Man to the State lost by Adam and Eve. The Our Father “.. Thy kingdom come, Thy Will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven..” has not yet been achieved.
    The Universe is vast there are billions of galaxy’s. I do not believe that Man was intended to be chained by His Fallen Flesh to a single spot rather that he and his descendants should roam and live in Creation. But then how can he reach for the stars?
    Paradise, the Garden wasn’t Heaven and I doubt whether there are only two inhabitants Enoch and Elias. I can’t remember which saint it was but I did read of one who bilocuted to a place with two suns. St Mary of Agreda was seen in America and remembered years before the missionary’s arrived. I am aware of personal friends and their experience as Children of St Padre Pio.
    I believe in the world Catholic and I am certain that a narrow almost bigotted version of that word doesn’t sit well with Our Lord and Our Lady largesse view on poor sinners.
    Heaven of the Beautific Vision is beyond my comprehension But see the great mystery that although in Eterrnity the Blessed are Our intercessors within Our Time.
    Now the Eucharist includes of course the Trinity since Our Lord is true God and True Man. Where the Trinity is is Heaven. Why would I want to contemplate a Man when Heaven is before me? True it takes spiritual eyes (actually the eyes of Faith) but this is the reality of the altar.
    Reducing the Mass to a pop concert or an entertainment might appeal to the worldly but this actually eclipses the veiled Divinity before Us.

    Like

  12. Frere Rabit says:

    “Best not get ‘carried away,’ eh?” says Toad.

    Rabit agrees. There is bugger all to get engaged with here. Better off walking the dogs around Moratinos than even reading any of this drivel.

    Roger, get a decent greengrocer and just make a healthy lunch for yourself. Cut out the religious mania and chill out before you bore everyone to death, I remember the words of my first spiritual director, who dismissed all my waffle about following St John of the Cross, and said, “Do you enjoy your food?”

    I didn’t actually, and his comments annoyed me. it took another 20 years to understand his point.

    Like

  13. Roger says:

    Frere Rabit
    The topic is about the Mass and contemplation.
    I understand self indulgence which isn’t confined to the stomach off course.
    I do not know your circumstances nor that of your spiritual director and I am not judging you. But your comment about it annoying you is the give away. The real battle is against self, hence your being annoyed.
    Now why would you be annoyed at providing fuel for Contemplation? Why react? Why judge? Familiarity breeds contempt and none more so than with the liturgical cycle. The most frequent observation is the fervour that becomes torpid.
    You want ground for spirituality its the Will and Perseverance. Self is the problem. But unless piety is feed with material contemplation becomes barren.
    Spend the next 20 years doing the Rosary but slowly as if it was your last and first time. Do this alone so that nobody knows or can see you. Will yourself to do this and persever.
    Do this before lunch or that walk and off course enjoy the lunch and the walk.

    Like

  14. Toad says:

    Perhaps Rabit‘s Spiritual Director was ‘channelling’ Bertolt Brecht, who once cautioned, “Grub first, then ethics.” But then, he was a Commie. (Bertolt, that is, not Rabit’s kindly S.D.)

    Interesting that Roger cites Josephus, because, as we know – the near-contemporary historian signally failed to mention Christ at all in his works*. Which was most disturbing for some.
    Not to mention confusing.

    (*This looked so bad that a clumsy forgery was added some four hundred years later.
    The finger points at Eusebius. So they say.)

    Like

  15. The Raven says:

    Toad

    I think that scholarly opinion is divided on Josephus: most, including Geza Vermes, take the view that the passages (note plural) were in the original manuscripts but that the passage which most clearly seems to confirm Christ’s status, as understood by Christians, was subsequently “padded out” by later copyists.

    Like

  16. Roger says:

    But then as everything was hand copied and written; printing presses didn’t exist you have the same argument applied over versioning. The Reformation destroyed key libraries.
    A Cap has been placed firmly on top of the Faith. It shall not grow.
    In the meantime the Sciences and Philosophy’s etc.. seem to be racing forward discover after discover.
    The Faith has been denied growth. As a result it looks distinctly sterile, antiquated. The Truth that has little or no relevance to the world. In other words anything that remotely steps out of that the straight jacket is religious mania!
    The way out of this isn’t through the senses self gratification. The Faith is Life the Bible is the book of Life and yet there is a band of Death that rings around the the Faith.
    Contemplation? What does this mean really but discovering Life with the words of Life! These should excite and stimulate, so that we grow without stimulous everything becomes sterile.
    The Word was made flesh. Word and words of Life and this sterility is suppressing the Words of Life.
    The Vatican since 1960’s has been mutton trying to dress as lamb. But Our Lord said the sheep hear my voice!

    Like

  17. Toad says:

    Yes, indeed, Raven. Mea culpa (as the much-missed Golden was wont to say.) Got “carried away.”
    As soon as I had pulled the trigger, my next thought was, “Do we really want to go through all this tiresome historical bickering again?”
    And “No,” was the conclusion.

    Like

  18. kathleen says:

    Frere Rabit,

    You can always scroll down, or start another angle on the interesting topic above by making a comment of your own, if you find the other comments such “drivel“! I think that was a very uncharitable thing to say, by the way.

    I too enjoy my food….. and trekking, cycling, swimming, reading, spending time with family and friends, etc. etc. Yet I too have been accused of being a Religious Maniac because I love (passionately) my Catholic Faith. ‘Spose I should offer up the insult and feel thankful at being so humbled, but being a bit of a headstrong rebel at heart, that I find tough!! 😉

    Like

  19. Toad says:

    “The Vatican since 1960′s has been mutton trying to dress as lamb. But Our Lord said the sheep hear my voice!”
    An analogy a bit too wooly for Toad.

    “….In other words anything that remotely steps out of the straight jacket is religious mania!”
    Well, Roger, we might ask what it was doing in the straight jacket in the first place.
    Maybe there’s a good reason.
    But then, of course, “religious mania” is what other, less fortunate people are inflicted with.
    Never us. Oh, no.

    Like

  20. Frere Rabit says:

    Scrolling down is one option, yes Kathleen, or not dropping in to CP&S at all is more often my preferred option these days. I’m not the first to point out how much drivel is clogging up the threads lately, and stronger comments have been made by others. This will be my last comment on the matter and i’m tired of being lectured by the buffoon.

    Like

  21. Roger says:

    Jerusalem and the Temple had a stranglehold on the Faith. The coming of the Messiah, the Virgin this was known and discussed and speculated over. But what happened when Our Lord turned Up? The Temple turned to the Secular to bump of the Messiah. Religious mania was behind the decision to debase and dehumanise Our Lord. Behold The Man.

    Really La Salette and Fatima placed Rome in exactly the same position and it is all about Prophecy. The Bible is replete with private prophecy’s, the altars replete with the fruits of private prophecy. The Western Church is in crisis and there is a schism between modernists and traditionalists and this was festering before 1960. The term “religious mania” has been feed by the charismatics.

    We are talkng here of fruits to fuel Contemplation. I am pointing out that attempting to straight jacket the Faith just creates sterility promoted by senility. Hence mutton trying to dress up as lamb.

    Like

  22. Toad says:

    Kathleen is, as always, right.
    There are those whose very definition of a “religious maniac,” is someone who believes in God.
    A bit “uncharitable,” thinks Toad.
    And probably not true, either. Except in very rare cases, often involving The Quivering Brethren.

    As to labelling Toad a “buffoon,” the fact that it is patently true does not make it any the less uncharitable.

    And God is clearly fond of buffoons as He has made an entire planetful of them.

    Like

  23. kathleen says:

    Dear old Toad – you are always good for a laugh. 😆

    And now, to get back to the subject of this great article…. I have just heard there is going to be a Tridentine Mass (traditional “Mass of All Ages”) in our parish next week, and I am as excited as a child who has been promised a gift! (Sadly we do not have regular EF Masses in our parish.)

    With a H/T to the LMS Chairman blog, where he quotes a Tablet writer, Fr. Ian Ker, as saying this about Evelyn Waugh:
    EVELYN Waugh lived to see the Second Vatican Council. For him, that was a misfortune. He died in 1966, a year after the council concluded its proceedings. ‘The b—–ing up of the Church’, he wrote to his friend Nancy Mitford, ‘is a deep sorrow to me’. It is well known that Waugh’s principal objection to Vatican II was the replacement of the Tridentine rite with the new vernacular liturgy. Waugh’s feelings were, of course, not at all unusual at the time; but what is interesting is the peculiar nature of his own sense of loss.

    Like

  24. Frere Rabit says:

    Not you, Toad! Read the above exchange! You don’t come into it.

    Like

  25. Roger says:

    Paradise and the two witness. The source the Doauy Rheims notes (16-17th century)
    Enoch was prior to the Flood
    “..Enoch and Elias, as it is commonly expounded. For, that Elias shall come again before the later day, it is a most notorious known thing (to use St. Augustine’s words) in the mouths and hearts of faithful men. See li. 20 de Civit. Dei c. 29; Tract. 4 in Ioan. and both of ep. 61 c.11 and in Psal. 20; St. Ambrose in Psal. 45; St. Hilary 20 can. in Matt.; Prosper li. ultima de Promisionibus c. 13.; St. Gregory li. 14 Moral. c. 11 and ho. 12 in Ezech.; Beda in 9 Marci. The Greek Fathers also, as St. Chrysostom ho. 58 in Mat. and ho. 4 in 2 Thessal. and ho. 22 in ep. ad Hebr.; Theophylacte and Oecumenius in 17 Matthai; St. Damascene li. 4 de Orthodoxa fide c. 27.
    Furthermore, that they live also in Paradise, it is partly gathered out of the Scripture Ecclici.44:16 where it is plainly said of Enoch, that he is translated into Paradise, as all our Latin exemplars
    do read: and of Elias, that he was taken up alive, it is evident 4 Reg. 2. And St. Irenaeus saith, it is the tradition of the Apostles, that they be both there. ..”

    Like

  26. Roger says:

    Finally the Death of Moses and the wise words of the Doauy Fathers over Moses body and Jewish traditions. Josephus simply refered to these traditions.
    Deuteronomy 34
    [5] And Moses the servant of the Lord died there, in the land of Moab, by the commandment of the Lord:
    [6] And he buried him in the valley of the land of Moab over against Phogor: and no man hath known of his sepulchre until this present day.
    [7] Moses was a hundred and twenty years old when he died: his eye was not dim, neither were his teeth moved.
    Doauy Notes the above Only Angels(whose ministry God used herein) knew the place of his burial.

    Epistle Of Saint Jude 1
    [9] When Michael the archangel, disputing with the devil, contended about the body of Moses, he durst not bring against him the judgment of railing speech, but said: The Lord command thee.
    Doauy Note
    the body of Moses. ] When, why, or how this altercation or combat was between St.Michael and the Devil about Moses’ body, no man can declare. Only this we see that many truths and stories were kept in the mouths and hearts of the faithful, that were not written in Scriptures canonical, as this was among the Jews.

    Like

  27. Toad says:

    Waugh died on Easter Sunday morning, shortly after having taken communion.
    Unfortunately he was only half Moses’s age.
    And toothless. And deaf.

    Waugh, incidentally, tried to win over his friend John Betjeman to Catholicism by assuring him that, if he didn’t switch from his Anglican faith, he would roast in Hell for all eternity.

    (Might it be that Enoch is in Paradise, and Elias is in Heaven? Or contrariwise?)

    Like

  28. Toad says:

    Yes, Kathleen, Toad generally does try to look on the less dismal side of things.
    An increasingly more onerous task with every passing day.

    But the serious point here is that, if we are, in fact, made in God’s image – by Him personally – why are we all so ****ing stupid (and ugly)?
    Are we the best He could come up with?
    It doesn’t seem to reflect very well on Him.
    Back to the old drawing board, God!

    Like

  29. Roger says:

    The key is the Transfiguration.
    My point is to contemplate/meditate we need good material to feed our minds. Martha and Mary, one is absorbed by what Our Lord is saying, drinking it in, something that engages the mind and reason. That is not reilgious mania. It is not seeking sensation.
    That Moses did not die is a tradition related by Josephus and confirmed by the Doauy Father (but they couldn’t qualify this from sources) That Moses saw conversed and new Our Lord (whom else did he see?) is the same as Adam and Eve isn’t it. His presence with Elias I believe confirms that Tradition.
    But for what it is worth here is something I will share with you but prepare for the howls!
    Moses, Peter and Elias represent different periods and States within the Church. Moses tabernacles was a tent temple. The Temple in Jerusalem transitory, Vatican transitory Avignon transitory. Peter says lets buld three tabernacles.
    Moses or rather the Moasaic period, Peter of the Gentiles. Elias? well the Church before the coming of the Lord and int he time of Anti Christ

    Like

Leave a Reply

Please log in using one of these methods to post your comment:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s