Medjugorje and Authority

So what’s the latest on the whole Medjugorje visions? Michael Voris explains.

Mic’D Up Episode

The Phenomenon of Medjugorje – A Response

To discuss the whole phenomenon of Medjugorje objectively it is necessary to make important distinctions between 1) responses to Medjugorje and 2) the Medjugorje “apparitions.”. Far too often responses are used to validate the “apparitions” themselves in a post hoc ergo propter hoc method of argumentation. That one thing follows another does not make one the cause of the other any more than one’s rising in the morning is the cause of subsequent world events.

With Medjugorje we are dealing with two distinct phenomena: the claim of “apparitions” of the Mother of God and the responses to those claims. It is more than possible for wonderful fruits to be claimed from reading about the alleged “apparitions,” or making a pilgrimage to Medjugorje, and for these alleged “apparitions” to be totally fraudulent, deceptive and diabolical in origin. It’s also possible for those same good fruits to be the predictable consequences of a valid Marian apparition. The point is that no valid conclusions can be drawn from good fruits about the validity and reality of the alleged “apparitions.” They are separate issues that must be addressed separately….

http://www.churchmilitant.tv/faq/medjugorje.php

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5 Responses to Medjugorje and Authority

  1. Frere Rabit says:

    I have my own very good reasons for knowing that the Medjugorje “apparitions” are entirely demonic. But don’t listen to me: listen to every Bishop of Mostar since the OFMs started this scam! And THEY have the authority in this matter.

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  2. Toadspittle says:

    “The point is that no valid conclusions can be drawn from good fruits about the validity and reality of the alleged “apparitions.” “

    …What the hell does that mean?

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  3. Toadspittle says:

    “Given the supernatural character of valid Marian apparitions, the final determination of the truth of the alleged “apparitions” at Medjugorje are beyond the capacity of science and human beings using natural methods. This means that even the one claiming to have had a Marian apparition is unable themselves to demonstrate the truth of their claims. All they can do is report what they have experienced. This experience is capable of being judged as hallucination, mental illness, innocent error, diabolical deception, some combination of the preceding, or completely valid. If the individual claiming to have had an “apparition” is unable to judge the validity of their experience themselves, then no combination of other people studying their experience is capable of anything more.”

    In what respect does the above (all perfectly sensible, it seems to me) fail to apply to any other Marian “apparition”?

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  4. kathleen says:

    In what respect does the above (all perfectly sensible, it seems to me) fail to apply to any other Marian “apparition”?

    Toad, I assume you are referring to approved Marian apparition sites?
    The first must obviously be whether the alleged apparitions are in accordance with Catholic Revelation and the teachings of the Church.
    The way the visionaries lead their lives afterwards is also very indicative. The other good fruits that come from the divulgence of the apparitions may temporarily help its case, but are not a full proof indication of its authenticity.
    Disobedience to the Bishops, successors of the Apostles, and all Church authority cannot be considered a ‘good fruit’.
    There has been no proof whatsoever of miracles of Divine intervention here (like the miracle of the sun at Fatima, or the healing spring at Lourdes) or any evidence of miraculous cures.
    Certainly as in this case at Medjugorje as Michal Voris underlines in the above video, Our Blessed Lady would never impart messages that are so un-Catholic and erroneous.

    “Unlike the approved apparitions, the visionaries at Medjugorje have been consistently disobedient to local bishops.”
    None of the so-called promises or prophesies of the Virgin Mary at Medjugorje have come true!!
    http://www.crisismagazine.com/2012/the-devil-and-medjugorje

    P.S. I meant to add that although one would be foolish to deny the authenticity of the approved Marian apparitions – and there are quite a few that have been Church approved – no Catholic is obliged to believe in them. They are not part of basic Catholic Revelation and Doctrine and Dogma, because they come under the term of “private revelation”.

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  5. Toadspittle says:

    “There has been no proof whatsoever of miracles of Divine intervention here (like the miracle of the sun at Fatima, or the healing spring at Lourdes)”

    Neither of those things can be remotely regarded as “proof,” Kathleen.
    We surely need “faith” in both cases?
    (Though finding a new spring is hardly a miracle. Nor is the sighting of some sort of curious local meteorological phenomenon. Or so the sceptics would probably say. But what do they know?)

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