Have ‘The Snakes’ Returned to Ireland? (The Irish Referendum on Marriage Equality – 22/5/15)

“Fighting for ‘Gay Marriage’ Generally Involves LYING” (states Masha Gessen, LGBT activist)

With little over a month to go for the referendum on so-called gay marriage bill in Ireland, with all the indications pointing to a “yes” vote winning over the “no” vote, comes this most revealing YouTube video from Mandate for Marriage of the sneaky, lying aims of those promoting the ‘gay marriage’ abomination.

But wait – this is not all! What about all those coming “yes” votes from those who identify themselves as ‘Catholic’, especially those among our clergy? The ACP, imbibed (in their own words) with the “spirit” of Vatican II has issued surely the most cowardly and treacherous statement imaginable on this coming referendum:

The Association of Catholic Priests (ACP) in Ireland has decided not to adopt a position in favour or against the Marriage Equality referendum!

At the same time we appeal for a respectful and civilised debate in which the issues involved can be discussed in a calm and reasonable manner. Sexual orientation does not debar anyone from God’s love. If as priests we are speaking on this matter, we need to remember that the use of intemperate language can cause deep hurt among gay people and their families, as well as doing further damage to an already ailing church. The ACP asserts the particular responsibility that devolves on priests to measure their words carefully, and not to direct their parishioners to vote Yes or No.

We look forward to a debate that will be characterized by freedom of speech and respectful listening so that the best result for the Irish people might be reached.

967f316e2bee74c84ac75a704925a345What? Did I read that right? And these are the men who vowed to uphold the Church’s teachings on Faith and Morals, and to lead souls to Heaven? Without a doubt, the snakes (or evils) that were driven out of Ireland by the great St. Patrick, have returned in force. The utter confusion of most of the commenters below the ACP statement, and in the country at large, says it all. And who is the originator of confusion among the faithful? Yup – the first ‘serpent’ mentioned in the Bible, ‘the father of lies’.

After a first post by an Irish Catholic blogger entitled “Irish clergy refuse to defend Marriage” giving some unsettling data on how (and why) Mass attendance has dropped so low since Diarmuid Martin became Archbishop of Dublin, he/she writes a followup on the subject of the disgraceful stance of the ACP where he says:

“Fr. Brendan Hoban spoke on RTE Radio about this topic with words that were so far removed from Catholicism that it is hard to imagine someone on the Yes side of the marriage referendum feigning interest in the faith with as much effort to be subversive as he is. He tells people to look at the issues and make an assessment of them.

Quick look, it’s a mortal sin. It’s that simple.”

It is heart-breaking and tragic that the Emerald Isle, a land once known as an “Island of Saints” and steeped in Catholic piety, whose missionaries brought the Gospel to great parts of the world; who in previous centuries faithfully rekindled devotion to the Bride of Christ in the West; who held onto their Catholic Faith at such high cost during those dark Penal years… should now, according to the preliminary opinion polls, be voting to overturn God’s law by legalising same-sex ‘marriage’! Or in other words – preparing to welcome “a state-sanctioned celebration of perversion”! In truth, Ireland’s plunge into widespread apostasy over such a short period of time, encouraged and abetted by the complacency of many of its Catholic clergy, is simply terrifying to behold.

Taken from a comment on a post entitled, “Evil: Is It Ever Moral To Be Neutral” on the Catholic Truth blog about the approaching referendum: “Not very long ago one would have been considered a lunatic to predict the legalisation of homosexual ‘marriage’ (an unmatchable oxymoron). […] Along with abortion, euthanasia, divorce, and contraception what we are dealing with is the latest wave in the tsunami of depravity inundating the western world. Does all this not reflect Our Lady’s warning at Fatima? […]  This story is just one more lamentable example of the repudiation of the Social Kingship of Christ and the undeniable withdrawal of graces in the post-conciliar wilderness. And we’re not just talking about lack of catechesis and faulty theology here. The gravity of sodomy, like killing unborn children, is a question of very basic natural law, knowable by any illiterate bushman who has never seen a missionary.

“The effects of modernist mind rot, as well those of the devil, the flesh and the world are there for all to see. I think Saint Thomas Aquinas wrote something along the lines that when men separate themselves from God, their intellects become dulled. The US Catholic writer Flannery O’Connor, who described herself as a “hillbilly Thomist”, and who died in 1964, once wrote that “the moral sense has been bred out of certain sections of the population, like the wings that have been bred off certain chickens to produce more white meat on them”. “Certain sections” is now virtually the entire western world.”

Our Blessed Lord stated clearly that, “He that is not with me, is against me: and he that gathereth not with me, scattereth” (Matt.12:30).

A few hours before his death G.K. Chesterton pronounced these sombre words: “The issue is now quite clear: it is between light and darkness and everyone must choose his side.”

“In our time more than ever before, the chief strength of the wicked lies in the cowardice and weakness of good men…All the strength of Satan’s reign is due to the easing-going weakness of Catholics”- Pope Saint Pius X.

It is startlingly evident, that all those members of the ACP (and every other Irish voter) who choose not to adopt a position against the inappropriately named ‘Marriage Equality’ referendum” are siding with those who are against Our Blessed Lord and His Divine Law.

[Last Tuesday a statement was issued by Ireland’s Catholic bishops and published in the Irish Times, warning that the church may no longer perform the civil aspects of weddings if marriage is extended to same-sex couples. Martin Long, director of the Catholic Communications Office said: “At the moment on behalf of the State, the priest acts as the solemniser of the marriage between a woman and a man. Obviously if the definition of marriage changes then this role will change.”]

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53 Responses to Have ‘The Snakes’ Returned to Ireland? (The Irish Referendum on Marriage Equality – 22/5/15)

  1. toadspittle says:

    “The Institution of Marriage is not going to change..”
    That entirely depends on what we mean by change, doesn’t it?
    If you add chips to a steak, does the steak “change”?

    This is a pitiful video, in my opinion. Might be wrong, though
    What Masha Gessen (lovely name! Anagram?*) says is substantially correct. She regards all marriage as an abomination. Well, it’s an understandable point of view…

    *Massage Hens


  2. johnhenrycn says:

    Looking forward to commenting – in a serious way – on this excellent post later, if I can, but in the meantime, same-sex marriage is a ‘God-send’ to someone I love who threw a party to celebrate the U.S. Supreme Court decision in United States v. Windsor declaring s. 3 of the Defence of Marriage Act unconstitutional. I was unable to attend on account of a prior commitment (a pedicure or some such) but could understand the cold logic of celebrating that decision, holding out, as it does, the promise [“not for me”, he thought enviously] of sharing in the inheritance of a classy condo on the Upper West Side. Think Knightsbridge 😦


  3. kathleen says:

    What a coincidence that today’s two posts, mine above on the Irish referendum on ‘gay marriage’, and Gertrude’s on the UK General Election (published exactly two and half hours afterwards), are both dealing with our consciences and how one should vote!

    But whereas who to vote for in the UK General Election presents a real dilemma and is a sticky problem for a Catholic (or any true Christian), the Irish Referendum, presenting only a “yes” or a “no” vote to grave depravity, is as clear as Lake Glendalough on a sunny day. 🙂


  4. johnhenrycn says:

    “The ACP asserts the particular responsibility that devolves on priests to measure their words carefully, and not to direct their parishioners to vote Yes or No.”

    I couldn’t agree more, insofar as priests like them are concerned. In my 10 years of Catholic obedience, building on 50 earlier years of Catholic formation, I think I’ve forgotten more about the Faith than they ever knew.


  5. johnhenrycn says:

    “We look forward to a debate that will be characterized by freedom of speech and respectful listening…” sayeth the ACP.

    In other words, stfu, what? Can I say that here? Like all liberal organizations, the ACP advocates for the creation of thought crimes – (“…intemperate language can cause deep hurt…”). I remember, with nostalgia, the first ‘gay’ I ever had a hand (be quiet, Toad) in hiring who kept to himself to himself. But your ACP only wants to allow politically correct orthodoxy. They want to criminalize everything outside of it. Make no mistake: only 30 years ago the homosexual lobby laughed at our paranoia about their wanting the right to marry. And you know, they were being perfectly honest at the time – most of them anyway. Jesus wept.

    If the October synod goes the way Kasper wants it to, my hoarding of spiritual canned and dry goods will be a proved sound investment.

    I just wish the SSPX would allow me to part my hair down the middle.


  6. johnhenrycn says:

    Kathleen: what is the reason I think of Ballykissangel when I see that sublime picture of Lake Glendalough? Fr Mac (in the series) was an orthodox, if mostly utilitarian, priest. I always preferred him to his slightly twee curates.


  7. johnhenrycn says:

    “It is heart-breaking and tragic that the Emerald Isle, a land once known as an “Island of Saints”…should now…be voting to overturn God’s law…”

    True dat, but equally tragic is that the Irish were compelled to flee across the ocean to America, which in 1892, when Annie Moore from County Cork, Ireland became the first immigrant to step foot on Ellis Island, was a non-Catholic country and still is.

    As Dr Johnson once said, à propos the Giant’s Causeway on the Emerald Isle: “There are many places in the world worth seeing, but none worth going to see”“. He said that awhile before Sir Richard Branson founded Virgin Airlines. Let’s count our blessings for being alive, wherever we live.


  8. toadspittle says:

    “As Dr Johnson once said, à propos the Giant’s Causeway on the Emerald Isle: “There are many places in the world worth seeing, but none worth going to see”“. “
    No he didn’t, JH.
    What he said was, “It (the Giant’s Causeway) was worth seeing – but not worth going to see.” A very different thing, and I believe know just what he meant. So do you, I think. He also said, “He who is tired of London, is tired of life,” so we must suppose he thought London worth going to see. I’m sure he thought several other places worth the trouble of going to see. Wonder what he’d have made of Vegas? Or the Upper West Side of New York City? Or the Sagrada Familia in Barcelona?


  9. johnhenrycn says:

    Sorry, Toad, your ‘point’ eludes me. Perhaps I made a mistake. Perhaps I was quoting Chesterton, not Johnson. “My bad”, as you might say. But I do have an excellent edition of Boswell’s Life of, and shall look up the exact quotation next year. I think you too are wrong, but that’s to be expected when one (you) only has Wikipedia to rely on.


  10. geoffkiernan says:

    When one doesn’t like the news all you have to do is Change the subject and talk about anything else…
    While those ‘priests’ are at it why don’t they just castrate themselves and get rid of that appendage that demands or suggests to them, they should be doing more. They would at lest feel better… Where have all the good men gone?


  11. geoffkiernan says:

    PS…On castrating themselves they will also joins the ranks of all other Irish males it seems…


  12. Tom Fisher says:

    I think you too are wrong, but that’s to be expected when one (you) only has Wikipedia to rely on.

    Toad’s right. I’ve quoted S.J. before on that. Don’t use Wikipedia.


  13. Tom Fisher says:

    There are many places in the world worth seeing, but none worth going to see

    One clue to the fact that Toad got the quotation right, and that the above doesn’t make sense, is the fact that Dr Johnson went all the way to the Hebrides on the grounds that they were worth going to see.


  14. johnhenrycn says:

    Ouch! So, you’re not partially decended from Irish criminals, then, like me, Geoff? But your first comment (05:27- “Where have all the good men gone?”) rings a bell:
    Michael Rose (the author) and I don’t talk much (the last time was when he reminded me of my password), but he’s an excellent writer whose investigative gifts are not appreciated as much as they ought to be in the Catholic blogsphere.


  15. johnhenrycn says:

    Harrumph. Yes, Tom, he did visit the Isles of Muck and Eigg, amongst others, when cajoled into doing so by Boswell. Did you think I didn’t know about his trip there, or that I don’t have Boswell’s book about them?
    The quotation is not seriously in dispute. I’ve admitted (more or less) my trivial mistake. But it’s found in Boswell’s Life of, I think – not in the Journals of the Western Isles. Which do you favour, Talisker or Islay, to borrow a little ditty by RLS? Comprende? Oh well, here’s another:

    …a song performed at my surprise 40th birthday a few years ago by a duo whose name escapes me at present, but which I shall remember in due course. God love you 😉


  16. toadspittle says:

    “PS…On castrating themselves they will also joins the ranks of all other Irish males it seems…”
    Are you slyly suggesting that Irish males are not breeding enough these days, Geoff?
    Or what?
    If you are, do we really want fifteen-strong families of utterly godless children? Because that’s what we’d likely get.


  17. johnhenrycn says:

    Thank you, Tom, for forcing me to open the filing cabinet of my mind and locate my memories of the Beirdo Brothers. I have their cassette somewhere, and shall have to play it again. The Teddy Bears’ Picnic and Bach’s Minuet in G are old favourites.


  18. kathleen says:

    “Where have all the good men [in Ireland] gone?”

    Here’s one* Geoff – David Quinn of the Iona Institute. Not a priest, but a true “Catholic knight” fighting a tough battle for the “no” vote in the Emerald Isle.

    * And of course there are other “good men”, both orthodox priests and laity, also fighting this lonely battle for truth, given that the MSM is so glaringly biased against Catholic values… (whatever ‘toads’ might say in disagreement!) they are given little hearing in the press.


  19. kathleen says:

    JH @ 22:44 yesterday:
    “Kathleen: what is the reason I think of Ballykissangel when I see that sublime picture of Lake Glendalough?”

    Dunno old chum, having never seen this somewhat dubious series before! … Scenes of rural Ireland perhaps?
    Nor have I watched more than one episode of the “Fr. Ted” TV series, that depicted the Catholic priesthood in such a bad light.
    The televised version of Chesterton’s “Fr. Brown” was good though. 🙂

    P.S. The book you mention, “Goodbye Good Men”, certain did cause an uproar of protest from Catholics when it first came out (about 13 years ago), and is still being talked about today. It may have been the catalyst, or at least one of the causes, that first started some investigation into screening procedures for seminaries in the West.


  20. Tom Fisher says:

    Thank you, Tom, for forcing me to open the filing cabinet of my mind and locate my memories of the Beirdo Brothers.

    My pleasure! However unintentionally it may have been, I appear to have been doing the work of the Lord (and his ways are certainly mysterious). Islay, for me. Always


  21. geoffkiernan says:

    Kathleen: I am sure there are some ‘good’ men… What we need are men that are prepared to die for the Faith if necessary, but just standing up would be enough to start with. Some of the wimps masquerading as men these days wear the mitre and have been seduced by the finery they wear ( Am I playing into Toads hands ? Maybe I am ) and the adulation that come from their position. They are simply frauds.
    JH…. Yep, descended from good Irish stock. My great G’ Father ( Charles Reynolds K) arrived aboard the ‘Fitzroy’ sailing from Durham. disembarking Fremantle in 1883. He was a free man. Bn. 1839 dd. 1920
    I have read ‘Goodbye Good Men’. It speaks for itself


  22. geoffkiernan says:

    PS.. The snakes have returned, they reside within the Church. The dress similar to some priests/bishops. We have our share in Oz


  23. toadspittle says:

    It’s high time to point out that St. Patrick only got rid of the poisonous snakes from Ireland.
    He sent them all to America, where they became Democrats, “Modernists,” and Liberals.
    If there are new ones in Ireland, they have very probably evolved over the centuries.
    Must ask Professor Dawkins. He’ll know, for sure.

    “The snakes have returned, they reside within the Church. The dress similar to some priests/bishops.”
    Snakeskin chasubles! How frightfully modish! With a Boa Constrictor train, twenty-five feet long!

    [Moderator writes: One sentence deleted. Link deleted. Watch it Toad or you are back to pre-moderation status again!]


  24. geoffkiernan says:

    As usual Toad, you pick the wrong target.


  25. johnhenrycn says:

    Toad, even if your own sartorial style leans in favour of Michael Foot’s donkey jacket or Her Majesty’s barbour jacket, you should allow that it is fitting, on occasions of great ceremonial importance, for princes to dress like princes. Cardinal Burke is, I’m convinced, a man of deep personal humility, unimpeachable integrity and inspiring courage. I hope, someday, to see him crowned with the papal tiara. Read the new post about a recent interview with him.


  26. johnhenrycn says:

    Kathleen, I feel that I must disagree with your views on Ballykissangel, which in my opinion presented priests in a favourable light, albeit with some all-too-human weaknesses, and that portrayal of them was central to the charm of the series. On the other hand, I too could only stomach one episode of that juvenile Fr Ted farce.


  27. editor says:


    Great post and thank you for linking to Catholic Truth.

    I notice that you say that it’s more of a dilemma for Catholics voting in the UK General Election, than for Irish Catholics voting in the same sex “marriage” referendum.

    I understand why you say that, because all emphasis by politicians (and the useful idiots who believe their every word) keep our focus on the economy, housing, employment etc. But for a Catholic there really is no dilemma. We cannot possibly vote for any system which allows, by law, the unborn baby to be put to death in his/her mother’s womb, or allows men to “marry” men and women to “marry women” – thus blatantly overturning the law of God.

    Because of a faulty understanding of conscience, people have come to think in terms of “dilemma” – they forget that conscience must dictate: “do/don’t do this, or God will be displeased” – it’s not meant to be an inner conversation to see how to best get to do what we really want to do to make our lives easier. Dilemma is the word that causes this confusion and spreads a false notion of the nature and purpose of conscience: it’s a “dilemma” for women contemplating abortion (why? If it’s legal and considered “safe”, why is there any dilemma? The only “dilemma” comes from realising that women are being allowed to “choose” to murder their children, but they won’t put that into words of one syllable.) Ditto these elections. We cannot be complicit in evil under any circumstances. If people want to vote with a view to improving their own bank balance or perceived job opportunities, then they will have to be prepared to tell God at their judgment that their “conscience” told them it was OK to do that and too bad about His moral law. They forget that God is never outdone in generosity. Vote against complicity in evil, and God will take care of the bank balance and the job opportunities.. all these other things will be given to us as well. I read that somewhere, so it must be true!

    In summary, I see no dilemma in how to vote at the UK election at all. I will go into the voting booth on 7 May and spoil my paper. I’ll write something to the effect that these politicians are all Godless, that Christ must be King over every nation and until there is a political party which seeks to achieve that, I won’t be voting for any of them. I hope the paper is bigger than last time – it was quite a squeeze then!

    As for the Irish referendum – there is absolutely only one way to vote, and someone needs to tell that Fr Iggy Donovan and Mary McAleese: no Catholic can vote for same-sex marriage and hope to save their soul – without the grace of repentance before death – if they are willing to risk having sufficient time to do so. Hearts tend to harden over time, so personally, I wouldn’t risk it.

    So, spoilt papers in the UK General Election and NO in the Irish referendum. Sorted. Where’s the dilemma?


  28. toadspittle says:

    “As usual Toad, you pick the wrong target.”
    Toad, regretfully, is not even remotely talented. But he doggedly ( toadedly?) plods on. And he diffidently requests the right to choose his own “targets.”
    “Talent hits a target no one else can hit. Genius hits a target no one else can see.”
    ― Schopenhauer.”


  29. toadspittle says:

    Well put, JH.
    I too, would be delighted to see Raymond Cardinal Burke, take over as Pope when Francis retires – possibly tomorrow – you never know with popes, these days, do you?
    So capricious, the rascals!
    It would be miraculously entertaining and stimulating to watch what would transpire.
    …And if I knew for sure it was going to happen , I’d buy shares in The House of Dior – and Gucci. Those OMG sweet little red satin shoes, Darling – just too, too divine!
    So darlingly Dorothy!
    (Toad’s “style” is rags and cast-offs from passing pilgs – any colour, as long as they’re black.)

    “…(Ballykissangel) which in my opinion presented priests in a favourable light, albeit with some all-too-human weaknesses,”
    Tut, JH…Can’t have it both ways, can we?


  30. johnhenrycn says:

    Sad. Metaphorically speaking, the only target you’ve ever hit is that old lady who was walking across the village square when you plowed into her with your pick-up truck.


  31. toadspittle says:

    Worth a “thumbs-up” from Toad. (are you losing it, JH, or what ? That was plain childish.)


  32. johnhenrycn says:

    I guess you don’t know what “metaphorically” means?


  33. toadspittle says:

    Of course I do, JH, “metaphorically,” means whatever each of us wants it to mean – no more, no less. I’m well aware what it means to me. As are you, to yourself. …And yet we might not agree. Almost certainly don’t.
    What does “artistic” mean to you? Forget it, there’s no need – let alone point – in bothering to answer.
    Same as with words like “Miracle,” or “Apparition,” or “Grace, ” or even “Good” or “Bad.”
    In fact, the shorter words are, the more difficult it is to agree on what they mean.
    Like “Sin,” for example.

    Goodness, Toad is becoming a shocking bore – even to himself. He should stop all this nonsense, toot sweet.


  34. kathleen says:

    JH @ 15:46

    I’ll take your word for it (about “Ballykissangel” being an OK series) seeing as how you say so. 😉 I have never watched any of it anyway… as I’ve already said. I just got a feel it was a bit “dubious” after peeping at some further clips from the theme tune video you posted.

    There is not much on TV worth watching IMO. And anytime a priest or nun comes on the screen you get this sinking feeling that they are going to be portrayed in a bad light, and thus the Catholic Church too… and you are invariably right!
    Whatever happened to some of those wonderful old films with a Catholic theme of our parents’ times?

    Snakes aplenty it seems, slithering into every field of life.


  35. toadspittle says:

    “Whatever happened to some of those wonderful old films with a Catholic theme of our parents’ times?”

    Absolutely right, Kathleen. How are we supposed to get a good laugh, these days?
    The fact, that they were more or less imbecile, is immaterial of course.


  36. toadspittle says:

    Mind you, the ears of Saint Bing of Beverly Hills are clearly a miracle. Oh, for the Trad old days – when Fanny was a girl’s name!


  37. kathleen says:

    Geoff @ 12:23

    You are right. Those are the sort of men the Church needs right now – those who would be “prepared to die for the Faith if necessary”. Like the heroic witness of the persecuted and murdered Christian in Iraq, Syria, Pakistan, Nigeria, Kenya… They have earned their martyrs’ crown! I wonder how many Western Christians would show such Faith and sheer guts in the face of such fierce opposition as these men and women (and even children) who have truly demonstrated what it means to, “Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength” (Mark 12:30).

    Did you listen to the David Quinn speech by the way? The “good” men like him who we do have among us, and the loyal and faithful priests and bishops who refuse to compromise their Faith, are suffering a cruel persecution too, of another sort: bullied, ridiculed, marginalised… and scorned. (That is what I meant by my comment at 10:25 and their ill-treatment by the MSM.)


  38. kathleen says:

    Editor @ 17:22

    Fantastic comment Editor – and I agree with everything you say! My use of the word “dilemma” here certainly doesn’t hold up anymore. 🙂

    What I really was trying to say was that the Irish referendum is a very straight-forward affair. Are you voting for “state-sanctioned perversion and sodomy”, or are you voting “to uphold God’s Divine Law about the sanctity of marriage between one woman and one man till death us do part”?
    Then if you read Deacon Nick Donnelly’s post published by my Team-mate Gertrude the same day as mine, where he points out how each and every political party in the UK holds to policies that go against the Kingship of Christ and a true Christian’s innermost beliefs, you are left with your voting paper in your hand asking yourself “to whom shall I go?” The person wants to vote; it’s his citizen’s right… but there is no suitable candidate.

    The only solution would be to do EXACTLY what you advise. There ends any “dilemma” on who to vote for!

    But we are still left with “the dilemma” on how to bring men back to God’s Law with its signpost to Heaven, aren’t we? 😉

    P.S. So sorry your comment got held up in our Moderation system for so long – I should have looked in there earlier. (First comments always go automatically there first, until “approved”.) Hopefully that won’t happen to any of your further comments.


  39. johnhenrycn says:

    Yes, too bad Editor was incommunicado for a wee while. I remember her from other websites. Always offering incisive and dependably Catholic commentary. Hope she isn’t discouraged from returning with more contributions. From Scotland, if memory serves.


  40. editor says:


    I apologise for not making clear in my first comment that I wasn’t criticising YOUR use of “dilemma” – I knew exactly what you meant, but I wanted to highlight the fact that others, less informed than your good self, DO reflect and deliberate and talk of their dilemma before they come to the conclusion that they can vote for the “least bad” party or the “pro life” candidate, without realising that however pro-life any candidate is, he/she hasn’t a snowball in Hell’s chance of ridding us of the murderous abortion law and other evil laws. I used to vote for the pro-life candidate until that truth sank in and I realised there really isn’t any point in voting “least bad” or “pro-life” because whatever our motivation, the end result is the same; we are giving power to people who are using it to do evil. End of.

    Thank you for your hospitality – I struggle to keep up with the Catholic Truth blog but will look in here whenever I can – this is a very impressive blog indeed.

    And thanks, too, to johnhenrycn for remembering me from other websites. And here’s me thinking I was instantly forgettable!


  41. toadspittle says:

    “I realised there really isn’t any point in voting “least bad” or “pro-life” because whatever our motivation, the end result is the same; we are giving power to people who are using it to do evil.”
    But if you don’t vote at all, Editor*, you are simply handing the evil ones a stronger majority, surely? Do you want that?

    *Interesting name. Ironic?


  42. editor says:


    Would you have said the same thing to St Thomas More (and other Catholics) who refused to sign the Oath of Supremacy, recognising the monarch, not the Pope as head of the Church in England? More’s own family urged him to go along to get along, keep a mental reservation and just sign – better than being indicted for treason.

    Catholics are going along to get along all over the place today. They are voting for evil legislation rather than refusing to be part of any attack on God’s law. You have focused on my decision about voting, not on that part of my comment which highlights the Catholic rationale. We cannot co-operate with evil. We must always act against evil and leave God to deal with the “stronger majority.”

    St Thomas More went to his death with a clear conscience, knowing that he had not placed any human being, even the King of England, above God’s revelation that the Pope is His Vicar on earth. That beats going along to get along in my book any day.

    Not sure whether your parting comment refers to your name or mine. Yours is definitely interesting!


  43. editor says:


    Just noticed the asterisk at “Editor” so realise that you mean MY username is interesting and ironic. Not sure why. It’s only to identify me as the editor of Catholic Truth, the name of our newsletter, website and blog. Can’t see anything “ironic” about it, but then I’m a simple gal.


  44. kathleen says:

    @ Editor

    Thank you so much for your great contributions here, pointing out insightful points about “conscience” that go directly to the heart of the matter. Our fidelity to God’s Law must ALWAYS take precedence over Man’s Law, where as any look at the history of mankind will bear out – when Man deviates from this and makes “evil” into a “law”, all sorts of disaster and/or suffering will follow in its wake. The greatest of these “disasters” is, of course, that the relationship between Man and Creator is vastly weakened or lost completely, and the ugly head of atheistic Secularism will replace the void left behind. (Or in countries where a heretical religion has taken over, the worship of a ‘false god’.)

    Editor, I am going to print a link to your post of Saturday on homo-fascism that is highly pertinent to the topic of this thread. (You have some excellent commenters on your blog too.) Below are the last two paragraphs of this brilliant article that, through the prophesies given at Fatima, sum up the troubling situation we are living in today thanks to those ‘leaders’ in the Church who have bowed to the ‘homosexual agenda’ so rampant in the Western world.

    “This Eastertide we remembered the Passion of Our Lord. Today the Church, which is His Mystical Body, is undergoing its own passion. And the horrific reality is that many of those who are wielding the whips by which the Church is being scourged belong to her upper hierarchy. Thus do we see confirmed Cardinal Ciappi’s revelation that the Third Secret prophesies an apostasy that “begins at the top.” And if what we are witnessing is not apostasy, then the word has lost its meaning.

    We take our consolation from the fact that the Church, like Our Lord Himself, will ultimately overcome this crisis. But how much she will have to endure before that happens remains a terrifying unknown whose outcome, however, seems to be depicted in that vision of a devastated city and the execution of the Pope atop a nearby hill — appropriately enough, at the foot of a large wooden cross.”


  45. toadspittle says:

    I didn’t suggest there was anything ironic about calling yourself, “Editor,” Editor – just wondered.
    St. Thomas More acted according to his conscience. …As should we all.
    If your conscience tells you to spoil your ballot paper – then you must.

    Homo-fascism, eh? Don’t care much for the sound of that. We don’t care for any variety of fascism on here…. Not even The Dear Old Generalissimo – do we?


  46. kathleen says:

    “Homo-fascism” is a very fitting term to describe the fascist-like tactics the homosexual lobby is using to impose its evil agenda on EVERYONE, standing for no resistance. This small minority of the population as a whole (only 1 to 1.5% we are told) have grown so powerful, so belligerent in their aims to ‘have it their way’, successfully managing to manipulate ‘useful idiots’ (who, while not suffering SSA themselves, go along with and even promote the deformed homo-fascist ideology), that anyone who opposes them in the slightest way is liable to be faced not only with threats and hate-filled verbal attacks – re Nick Donnelly’s latest post – but also with charges punishable by the ‘new’ Law of the Land!!

    That’s the bizarre and disturbing situation we are in nowadays in Western nations – when the ‘homo-fascists’ can dictate their depravity from positions of authority through having infiltrated each and every institution, forcing laws to be changed in their favour – hence such appropriate terms as “state-sanctioned perversion” – and victimising any brave soul who dares to take a stand against them and their mindset.

    The ACP’s pathetic statement quoted in the article above is a clear example of the ‘success’ of this fascist homosexual lobby! Priests, known as ‘alter Christis’ are now kowtowing to the promoters of sodomy and depravity, refusing to take a stand against them and defend Christ’s teaching. What have we come to? We are reminded once more of Paul VI’s ominous “smoke of satan…” and Our Lady’s prophetic warnings at Fatima, Akita, La Salette, etc. that Satan would enter into even the highest in the hierarchy in our times!

    No, there is no longer any “neutral” position. We are either for God, or we are against Him. Simples.


  47. editor says:


    Superb. Every word a jewel.


  48. toadspittle says:

    “We are either for God, or we are against Him. Simples.”
    If you say, so, Editor.
    I tend to disagree, ( as would Sir Anthony Kenny) but I’m sure every crazed ISIS terrorist, and door-knocking Mormon, and evolution-denying fundamentalist nut from Kentucky, will readily agree with you.
    So, maybe it’s not as “simples” as all that. (Horrible jargon word that. (IMAO.)


  49. kathleen says:

    Editor @ 10:34

    Thank you very much (blush)… and coming from you, that is a compliment indeed! 🙂

    it was not Editor who used that “horrible jargon word”, it was silly old me. I thought I was repeating a one-time contribution of yours on the blog.

    Too bad if your hero, Sir Anthony Kenny, would not agree with that sentence; it is true nonetheless.
    Other well-meaning people from other faiths may reflect varying degrees of being “for God” in their beliefs and efforts to lead good lives, though only Christianity – and within Christianity, the Catholic Church – has the fullness of the meaning of this Truth, in the One Church founded by Christ.
    ISIS, as you and every sane person well knows, are worshipping and obeying the orders of Satan. He is their god. We should pray for those who are caught up in its evil clutches.


  50. toadspittle says:

    I see you are right, Kathleen – my grovelling apologies to you and Editor. I juxtaposed you both. Shockingly careless of me. Senile dementia, as JH will gladly confirm.

    “ISIS, as you and every sane person well knows, are worshipping and obeying the orders of Satan. He is their god. “
    That may well be. But it’s not what the ISIS gang think. They believe they are doing God’s work, and are prepared, even eager, to die for it.
    At one time we would have said that Protestants were working for Satan, wouldn’t we? And not all that long ago, either. And they would have said the same about Catholics.
    Wouldn’t really be altogether surprised if some, on either side, are still saying it.
    (Don’t know, though.)


  51. editor says:


    I’ve just spotted a typing error in my reply to Toadspittle at 9.41. yesterday. I wrote:

    “They are voting for evil legislation rather than be part of any attack on God’s law.”

    This SHOULD read “They are voting for evil legislation rather than refusing to be part of…etc.”

    Feel free to change that in the original post if you wish, in which case just consign this to the bin. Sorry for my carelessness.

    I spotted this because we’re discussing the Election over at Catholic Truth and we have our own “Toadspittle” in the form of Alex F, who is advocating voting for the least bad… I decided to just copy my exchange with Toady (!) rather than reinvent the wheel, and noticed the mistake. Apologies.

    God bless


  52. kathleen says:

    Done! 🙂

    Nonetheless, I won’t delete your comment. There might be those looking in here who would be interested in seeing the Election debate over on your great blog.

    God bless you too.


  53. editor says:

    Thank you, Kathleen. Much appreciated.


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