Out of Africa: latest papal in-flight press conference

f0da3168ba4c4f81bca7210c249d7ee3Following his five-day journey through Kenya, Uganda, and the Central African Republic, Pope Francis spoke with reporters about a wide range of topics on the papal plane.

COMPLETE TEXT OF THE POPE’S PRESS CONFERENCE

In Kenya, you met poor families and listened to their stories of exclusion from fundamental human rights such as access to drinking water. What did you feel when you listened to their stories and what needs to be done to end such injustices?

“I have spoken about this problem on a number of occasions. I do not recall the statistics precisely but I seem to recall reading that 80% of the world’s wealth is in the hands of 17% of the population, I don’t know if that’s true. It is an economic system that places money at the centre, the god money. I remember a non-Catholic ambassador once speaking in French and saying “Nous sommes tombeé dans l’idolatrie del’argent”. What did I feel in Kangemi? I felt pain, great pain! Yesterday I went to a children’s hospital, the only one in Bangui and in the whole country. In the intensive care unit there’s no oxygen, there were children that were malnourished. Idolatry is when a man or a woman loses his or her ID card, in other words their identity as God’s children and prefers to seek a tailor-made God. The bottom line is this; if humanity does not change, poverty, tragedies, wars and injustice will continue. Children will go on dying of hunger. What does that percentage of people that holds 80% of the world’s wealth in their hands think of this? This is not communism, it is the truth. And seeing the truth is not easy.”

I would like to know what the most memorable part of the trip was, whether you will return to Africa and where your next visit will be to?

“If this goes well, I think the next visit will be to Mexico, the dates have not been set in stone yet. Will I return to Africa? I don’t know. I’m old and travelling is tiring! The most memorable part of this trip were the crowds, all that joy, that celebratory spirit, the will to celebrate even on an empty stomach. For me, Africa was a surprise. God always surprises us, but Africa surprises us too. I remember many moments, but above all, I remember the crowds… They felt ‘visited’, they are so incredibly welcoming and I saw this in all three nations. Though each country has its own unique identity: Kenya is a bit more modern and developed. Uganda’s identity is shaped by its martyrs: the Ugandan people – both Catholics and Anglicans – venerate the martyrs. The Central African Republic is hungry for peace, reconciliation, forgiveness. Until four years ago, Catholics, Protestants and Muslims lived together as brothers and sisters. Yesterday I went to the Evangelicals who are working so hard and then they came to mass. Today I went to the mosque, I prayed there, the Imam got into the Popemobile to go for a short ride among the refugees. There is one small group that is very violent, I believe they are Christians or they claim to be Christians but it’s not ISIS, it’s something else. Now elections are going to take place, they have chosen an interim President, a woman, and they seek peace: no hate.”

Today, a great deal is being said about the Vatileaks case: Without going into the trial that is underway, I would like to ask you: how important is the free and secular press in uprooting corruption?

“A free, secular and religious, but professional press. The professionalism of the press can be secular or religious: the important thing is for it to be professional and for news not to be manipulated. For me it is important because condemning injustice corruption is a great job. Professional press needs to say it all but without succumbing to the most common sins: misinformation, in other words only telling half of the story and leaving the other half out; slander, when the unprofessional press dishonours people; defamation, which involves ruining a person’s reputation. These are the three  defects that erode the professionalism of the press. We need professionalism. And regarding corruption: looking carefully at the facts and telling things as they are: there is corruption here because of this, this and that. And if a real journalist makes a mistake, he or she apologises.”

Religious fundamentalism is threatening the whole planet, we saw this with the Paris attacks. In the face of this danger, do you think religious leaders should intervene more in the political sphere?

“If intervening in the political sphere means doing politics, then no. They should be priests, pastors, Imams, Rabbis. Their political intervention is indirect, they preach values, real values and one of the greatest values of all is fraternity between us. We are all God’s children, we all have the same Father. I don’t like the word tolerance, we need to live peacefully alongside one another, develop friendships. Fundamentalism is a disease that exists in all religions. In the Catholic Church we have some – many – who believe they possess the absolute truth and they go on sullying others through slander and defamation and this is wrong. I say this because it is my Church. Religious fundamentalism must be combatted. It is not religious, God is lacking, it is idolatric. Hat religious leaders need to do is convince people who have these tendencies. Fundamentalism that ends in tragedy or commits crimes is a bad thing but it exists in all religions.”

How did Mgr. Lucio Vallejo Balda and Francesca Chaouqui come to be members of the COSEA commission? Do you believe you made a mistake?

“A mistake was made. Vallejo joined because of the role he had and did have up until now: he was secretary of the Prefecture for the Economic Affairs of the Holy See. How did she get in: I am not sure, but I think I am right in saying that it was he who said she was someone who was well acquainted with the world of  business relations. They worked and when the work was complete, COSEA’s members kept some positions in the Vatican. Mrs. Chaouqui did not stay in the Vatican: some say she was angry abou this. The judges will tell us what her real intentions were, how they did it. It did not come as a surprise to me, I didn’t lose any sleep over it because they showed everyone the work begun with the commission of nine cardinals, to root out corruption and the things that are wrong. There’s one thing I want to say, not about Vallejo and  Chaouqui. Thirteen days before John Paul II’s death, during the via Crucis, the then Cardinal Ratzinger, talked about the filth in the Church. He denounced the first one. Then John Paul II died and Ratzinger, who was a dean on the “pro eligendo Pontefice” mass, talked about the same thing.  We elected him because of his openness about things. It is since that time that there has been corruption in the air in the Vatican. Regarding the trial: I have not read the charges in full. I would have liked the whole thing to have been over and done with before the Jubilee but I don’t think that’s possible because I want all the defence lawyers to have time to do their job and the freedom of defence.”

What needs to be done so that incidents of this kind never occur again?

“I thank God that Lucrecia Borgia in longer around! But the cardinals, the commissions and I need to continue the clean-up process.”

AIDS is a serious problem in Africa, the epidemic continues. We know that prevention is the key  and that condoms are not the only means of stopping the epidemic, but it is an important part of the solution. Is it not perhaps time for the Church to change its position with regard to the use of condoms in order to prevent infections?

“The question seems biased to me. Yes, it is one of the methods, the morality of the Church faces a bit of a predicament here. The fifth or the sixth commandment: defend life or a sexual relationship that is open to life. But this is not the problem. There is a greater problem than this: this question makes me think of the question they once asked Jesus: tell me Master, is it acceptable to heal on a Saturday? Healing is obligatory! Malnutrition, exploitation, slave labour, the lack of drinking water, these are the problems. We’re not talking about which plaster we should use for which wound. The great injustice is social injustice, the great injustice is malnutrition. I don’t like making such casuistic reflections when there are people dying because of a lack of  water and hunger. Think about arms trafficking. When these problems cease to exist, then I think we can ask ourselves the question: is it acceptable to heal on a Saturday? Why are arms still being manufactured? Wars are the leading cause of death. Forget about whether it is acceptable or not to heal on a Saturday. Make justice and when everyone is healed, when there is no injustice in this world, then we can talk about Saturday.”

What is the Vatican’s position with regard to the current crisis in relations between Russia and Turkey? Have you considered going to Armenian for the 101st anniversary of the Armenian massacre?

“Last year I promised the three patriarchs I would go. The promise remains. Regarding wars: these grow out of ambition. I am not talking about those which are fought out of just defence against an unjust aggressor. Wars are an industry. Throughout history, we have seen on a number of occasions how a country whose finances are not doing too well, decides to go to war and straighten out its finances. War is a business. Terrorists, do they manufacture weapons? Who gives them weapons? There is a whole network of interests, behind which you find money and power. We have been going through a world war fought piecemeal and each time the pieces are less like pieces, they are geeing bigger and bigger. I don’t know what the Vatican thinks. What do I think? I think wars are sinful, they destroy humanity, they are a cause of exploitation and human trafficking. They need to stop. Twice, both in New York and Kenya, I said to the United Nations: your work should not be that of a declamatory nominalism. Here in Africa, I saw how the Blue Helmets work but it is not enough. Wars are not a thing of God, God is the God of peace, he created a beautiful world. In the Bible, we read about a brother killing a brother: the first world war. And it pains me deeply to say this.”

COP21, the conference of climate change kicks off in Paris today. We hope it will be the start of a solution, are you certain that progress will be made?

“I am not certain but what I can say is that it is either now or never. I think the first conference took place in Tokyo…little was achieved. Every year the problems get worse. At a university meeting on what kind of a world we want to leave behind for our children, one person said: are you sure there will be any children of this generations till around? We are on the verge of suicide, to use a strong word and I am certain that people in Paris are aware of this and want to do something about it. The other day I read that in Greenland, glaciers are losing mass at a rate of billions of tons. In the Pacific, there is a country that is buying another country to move to because in 20 years it will cease to exist. I trust these people will do something. I hope this will be the case and I pray it will.

You have shown many gestures of friendship and respect towards Muslims. What do Islam and Mohammed’s teachings tell today’s world?

“Dialogue is possible, they have many values and these values are constructive. I am also friends with a Muslim, a world leader. We are able to talk. He has his values I have mine, he prays and so do I. Many values; prayer, fasting. You cannot wipe out a religion just because there are some or a number of groups of fundamentalists at one moment in history. It is true, there have always been wars between faiths and we too need to ask for forgiveness: Catherine de’ Medici was no saint and that war that lasted 30 years, St. Bartholomew’s Day massacre… We also need to ask for forgiveness. But they have values and dialogue is possible. Today I went to the mosque, the Imam wanted to come with me. A Pope and an Imam both got into the Popemobile. Think of all the wars we Christians have waged. It wasn’t the Muslims who were responsible for the Sack of Rome.”

We know you are going to visit Mexico. Do you think you might visit Colombia or Peru?

“Travelling at my age is not good, it takes its toll. I am going to Mexico and the first thing I will do is to visit Our Lady, the Mother of America. If it weren’t for her, I wouldn’t have gone to Mexico based on the criterion of the visit; to visit three or four citis a Pope has never been to. I will also visit Chapas, then Morelia and on the way back to Rome, there will almost certainly be a stop in Ciudad Juarez. Regarding other Latin American countries: in 2017 I was invited to Aparecida, another Patroness of America, but Portuguese speaking. And after this I could visit another country, but I don’t know, nothing has been planned yet.”

This was your first visit and everyone was concerned about your safety. What would you say to a world that thinks Africa is nothing but a victim of war and destruction?

“Africa is a victim, Africa has always been exploited by other powers, African slaves were sold in America. There are powers that simply want to take Africa’s great riches – it is perhaps the world’s richest continent – but they do not think about helping countries to grow so that everyone can work. Africa is a martyr of exploitation. Those who claim that all adversities and wars come out of Africa have no idea of the harm certain forms of development are doing to humanity. That is why I love Africa, because it has been a victim of other powers.”

 

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30 Responses to Out of Africa: latest papal in-flight press conference

  1. To tell the truth, I now hesitate to read any transcript of any of the Pope’s “remarks.” I’m afraid he’ll come out with more gems like “who am I to judge?” or “talk to the Lord and then go forward” or perhaps some statement – full of charity, of course – accusing us faithful Catholics of acting like “Pharisees” or “Doctors of the Law.”

    And this Pope is the “rock” on which Christ is building His Church?

    God help us all.

  2. GC says:

    I say this because it is my Church.

    I always thought it was Christ’s Church? Or have they changed all that?

  3. Michael says:

    Religious fundamentalism must be combatted. It is not religious, God is lacking, it is idolatric.

    If it’s not religious, how can it be called religious fundamentalism?

    At any rate, I think this term gets misused a lot. If anyone is to be true to what their religion teaches, then they will have to adhere to its fundamentals, and so in this sense being a fundamentalist is actually a sensible thing, and insofar as what a particular religion teaches is good, it is also a good thing. Unfortunately, I get the sense that here, as well as many other places, the term is being used in order to avoid saying ‘Islamist’ – because that would raise all sorts of questions we don’t want to deal with.

    Rather than admit that different religions have different fundamentals, and therefore that some violence done in the name of religion has more justification in some traditions than others, the vague term ‘fundamentalist’ is employed. This not only undermines the plain sense of the term, and ignores the historical meaning of that term as applied to Christianity (i.e.; 19th Century reactionary literalism in American Protestantism), but lumps in anyone who takes Sacred Tradition seriously with ISIS and Boko Haram too.

  4. Michael says:

    Note also the vague, slightly evasive response to the question ‘What do Islam and Mohammed’s teachings tell today’s world?’

  5. GC says:

    I have always sensed, Michael, that the progressives’ “passion for justice” since the 70s is “idolatrous”. It may explain why you rarely hear about God in a progressive “paraliturgy” or “eucharistic celebration”. Certainly God is just, but He is not justice. I thought He was so much more than that and that made Him even better..

    I’m afraid that when the Bishop of Rome starts to adopt publicly this tired old “Catholic fundamentalist” rhetoric he shows himself to be more of an aged progressive remnant from the 70s (there’s a few of them still) than the chief pastor of all Catholics in 2015. Unfortunate.

  6. Robert says:

    Heaven help Fallen Man if God’s Justice were to Fall upon Him. What prevents this? The Passion of Christ as perpetuated in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass!

  7. Michael says:

    I thought He was so much more than that and that made Him even better..

    Haha – yes, me too! It’s another case of the old double standards that we were discussing on another thread I fear – traditionalists/fundamentalists/conservatives are guilty of x, y or z, but woe to the one who suggests we might be guilty of those very same things. In fact, the very name ‘progressive’ is meant (I think) to be a sort of immunity against accusations of hypocrisy – for example, as you say, the obsession with social justice (often to the exclusion of all other concerns) is indeed a form of idolatry, but in response the ‘progressive’ will either sidestep the accusation or (with a straight face, and without saying so outright of course) give the impression that it’s okay because this is the ‘right’ kind of thing to idolise (‘hey, it’s progressive – no one’s against that right?’)

    This lack of concern for the fact that the Catholic Faith is a rich, organic whole (where each aspect needs to be kept in its proper place and measure and balanced with all the other parts) is a constant hallmark of the kind of 60’s/70’s liberalism you mention above – there is always an over-emphasis of one part of the Faith to the distortion or diminishing of the rest. Unfortunately now this same spirit has been combined with 24/7 media and a ready supply of microphones in aeroplanes.

    Slightly off-topic, but it does bear some relation to the above, and contains some comforting reminders about what popes believe/want and what they can actually get done:

    http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/issues/november-27th-2015/why-popes-dont-always-get-what-they-want/

  8. kathleen says:

    After all our very negative past experiences of Pope Francis speaking ‘off the cuff’ on planes, I have to admit that I was really dreading the coming Press conference from the Holy Father on the return flight from Africa. Yet, even so, I still could not believe this one would be any worse than “who-am-I-to-judge”, “women-should-not-breed-like-rabbits”, etc. shockers of previous return flight Press conferences.
    I was wrong!
    This one is so appalling it is hard to know where to begin, though the above commenters have already picked out a few pertinent sentences among the mountain of incredible faux pas uttered from the one who sits on the Chair of St Peter.

    We need God’s help indeed to make us keep calm and remember (as Father Z reminds his distraught public in a post yesterday) that every Papacy is only a “parenthesis” in the life of the Church. She will recover from all temporal disasters and/or betrayals, whatever they may be, and from whomsoever they may come as She always has done in the past, to live on till the end of time. Our obligation, Fr Z says, is to keep the Faith by frequenting the Sacraments, remaining faithful to all the Church’s teachings, examine our own consciences and GO TO CONFESSION.

    http://wdtprs.com/blog/2015/12/papal-airplane-presser-wherein-fr-z-rants/

  9. kathleen says:

    Another insult from Pope Francis aimed at all Catholics trying to lead faithful lives true to the Church’s precepts, was derogatorily calling us “fundamentalists”!!

    Is it really such a bad thing to have fundamental beliefs in what you know is the Truth? Michael also points out this incongruity above.

    According to the “Online Etymology Dictionary”, the advective “fundamental” is described as:
    “mid-15c., “primary, original, pertaining to a foundation,” modeled on Late Latin fundamentalis “of the foundation,” from Latin fundamentum “foundation”.

    Surely, a “fundamentalist” mindset (based on the “foundations” of the pillars of Christianity) is the right way, as opposed to the rationalistic interpretation of Christianity which seeks to discredit the supernatural?

    The trouble is, “fundamentalism” rightly has a bad name nowadays, due to the interpretation of the precepts of Islam by the murdering Islamic jihadists.

    Lumping all fundamentalists together as Pope Francis has done [and he was talking in the present tense] it is not only ridiculous, but with the death toll of innocents from all religions and none (but especially Christians) now running into the tens of thousands just in the last few decades at the hands of Militant Islam, it is also extraordinarily mean and perverted to include Christian fundamentalists in the same breath (category) as the jihadists!

    For example, some figures just from the first part of 2015:

    http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/attacks-2015.htm

  10. toad says:

    “I say this because it is my Church.”
    I suspect what Francis meant was: “This is the Church to which I belong.”
    Possibly. But you never know, do you, – GC?

  11. alohalady14L says:

    I would like to present a quote from ‘St John Eudes’ to give us an idea of why we have a good amount of unholy leaders (including the pope) in our church today……..

    “The most evident mark of God’s anger and the most terrible castigation He can inflict upon the world are manifested when He permits His people to fall into the hands of clergy who are priests more in name than in deed. Priest who practice the cruelty of ravening wolves rather than charity and affection of devoted shepherds. When God permits such things it is a very positive proof that He is thoroughly angry with His people and is visiting His most dreadful anger upon them. That is why He cries unceasingly to Christians “return O ye revolting children, and I will give you pastors according to My own heart” (Jer 3:14-15). Thus irregularities in the lives of priests constitute a scourge upon the people in consequence of sin”.

    ……..Jer 3:14-15……….”If the people don’t turn back to God He will send them pastors who are wolves in sheeps clothing, who will destroy the flock”

    Doesn’t it remind us of what the Blessed Mother said at Fatima………”war is a punishment for sin”………..so it seems the same goes for unholy leaders being a punishment to us for our sins. Too many Catholics are in DEEP SIN !…….80% or more don’t go to church and are so caught up into the world and don’t follow church teachings.

    The Blessed Mother said that the way to remedy this is for us faithful Catholics to do ‘MUCH penance’, ‘MUCH sacrifice’, ‘MUCH prayer’, and ‘MUCH confession’, and ‘MUCH Adoration’…..what she said at Garabandal and at Fatima. Padre Pio has said this same thing.

    How many of us can actually say that we have been doing this ??? I know I can’t !

  12. alohalady14L says:

    I didn’t read the whole article here, but I cannot believe that the pope said this……..

    ….. “In the Catholic Church we have some – many – who believe they possess the absolute truth and they go on sullying others through slander and defamation and this is wrong. I say this because it is my Church.”

    Like GC said……I thought that it was ‘Christ’s church’.

    Does the Church not possess the absolute TRUTH ??? I wonder which people he’s talking about that…..”go on sullying others through slander and defamation”…hmmmm !

  13. GC says:

    Toad @ 11:12

    I suspect what Francis meant was: “This is the Church to which I belong.”

    Possibly, Toad.

    But I recall him using other language that would suggest that he sees himself more as CEO than as chief shepherd of Christ’s Church on earth. For instance, in Florence a few weeks ago he said things like “I want a church that this” and “I want a church that the other thing”. I could remember other such language if I thought long enough.

    I’ve lived through seven popes, Toad, and I can’t recall any of the first six speaking in this “I want I want” manner. The others spoke as shepherds and teachers, the servant of the servants of God – not as a novice master. It really does make me wonder.

    If I hear any more, I’ll let you know.

  14. alohalady14L says:

    What do you guys think about him praying inside a ‘mosque’ ???……sure doesn’t sound right to me !

  15. GC says:

    kathleen @ 10:49

    Is it really such a bad thing to have fundamental beliefs in what you know is the Truth? Michael also points out this incongruity above.

    Kathleen, I took the Bishop of Rome to mean the expression “Catholic fundamentalists”, which is a hoary old chestnut used by progressives to be rude to conservative and traditional Catholics. As far as I know, they started using this expression in the 1990s or, at least, that’s when I first heard it. A priest, if I’m not wrong, called Cardinal Pell that on national television when he (His Eminence) was still an auxiliary bishop in Melbourne. (The said priest jumped ship later and he is not a priest any more! But the liberal secular media still love him.)

    I think they started using this “Catholic fundamentalist” expression before the term “Islamic fundamentalist” was used much. The “fundamentalists” at the time were meant to be, rather, the evangelical protestants in America, who were then developing some greater political muscle there.

    Look here:

    Can the Catholic Church be fundamentalist? Contemporary scholarship has shown that fundamentalism can take other forms than scriptural literalism. It consists in a rationalizing of traditional certainties in the face of pluralism and change. Its Catholic form could be described as “morphological,” residing in the structures of authority and power.

    In other words, a “Catholic fundamentalist” is just an orthodox Catholic – they think, anyway. Oh titter titter.

    That’s what I meant when I said that the Bishop of Rome was sounding more like a 70s progressive rather than the chief shepherd of ALL Catholics in 2015. Sounds like he doesn’t like us much, doesn’t it?

  16. kathleen says:

    Sounds like he [Pope Francis] doesn’t like us much, doesn’t it?

    Dead right, GC.😥
    But Our Lord has told us that: “Blessed are ye when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and speak all that is evil against you, untruly, for my sake” (Matt.5:11), so not to worry. We know that to uphold the Deposit of Faith against all who try to undermine, dilute or alter its content is a sacred duty of all true and orthodox Catholics. To be knocked around a bit verbally is no big deal in the end. Especially when we see the real persecution dealt out to so many Christians for heroically living and defending their Faith in so many other parts of the world.

    Kathleen, I took the Bishop of Rome to mean the expression “Catholic fundamentalists”, which is a hoary old chestnut used by progressives to be rude to conservative and traditional Catholics.

    Yes, so to use it against us is a bit of “cutting off the nose to spite the face”…
    Dontcha think?😉

    I mean, shouldn’t we all (and especially the Pope and bishops) adhere to the fundamental teachings of our Faith, and want to pass on this ‘treasure’ to all men everywhere?

  17. toad says:

    “To be knocked around a bit verbally is no big deal in the end. “
    Absolutely right, Kathleen. In fact, it can be mentally stimulating. I find it so, at least – as I writhe with impotent rage at yet another devastating verbal sally from my CP&S friends.

    We must pray that Pope Francis is of like mind.

  18. toad says:

    Is our brother Roger a Catholic Fundamentalist? Is Michael? Is GC? Do they all believe exactly the same dogma* about Catholicism, Adam and Eve, and the age of the planet?
    [A moderator: 7 words deleted] I think we should be told.

    *Roger says it is dogma.

  19. GC says:

    Why ask us, Toad? Toad will need to ask John D’Arcy May and friends that. They said it, so it’s their baby.

    Or the Bishop of Rome, apparently? He appears to know also.

    What is interesting is that May and the others said it as a reference to the Church as governed by John Paul II (the “Polish peasant”, as I heard a most exquisitely “non-fundamentalist” priest say in the early 80s in a homily).

    Does this mean that the Bishop of Rome thinks John Paul II was a “Catholic fundamentalist” too? I think we should be told, as you say.

  20. Robert says:

    Toad you need to be corrected.
    The starting point is Eternity where age has no relevance. As for a Created Universe it should be obvious that Heaven can Create at whatever material Age Heaven chooses.
    Lets take a simply example Adam and Eve. What was Adam’s Age when Created?
    What was Eve’s Age when Created?
    If Heaven wants to create a billion year Old Tree or rock in this instance what is the Age of that Tree or Rock? Its just been created!
    Our Lord healed the sick! Our Lord turned water into wine (what then was the age of that wine? what was its vintage?)
    More St Paul points out that Man is body, spirit, soul. Does the soul Age? Does the spirit Age? Your perspective of God is material and naturalist based in other words within the constraints of the naturalist world (that doesn’t require God!)
    I haven’t a clue what you nor Frank means by Catholic Fundamentalist its obviously a denigration and a ridiculing of the Apostles Creed since CREATOR is the word used there.
    What is revealed is a rejection of a creator in favour of some weird mythological phenomenon that has no name so they call it God! I call that superstition and pagan.

  21. kathleen says:

    alohalady @ 11:48

    What do you guys think about him praying inside a ‘mosque’ ???……sure doesn’t sound right to me !

    I agree. How can you pray to God in the house of a false ‘g’od?
    This is all part and parcel of this crazy ecumaniacism of the post Vatican II era, I fear.

    Dialogue (something the liberals insist on so voraciously these days) is of course right and good in order to remain on charitable terms about mundane things with people from other faiths with whom we live in our modern multi-cultural world.
    But it can only be used in a religious sense when answering sincere questions from non-believers or those of other religions about why we believe what we do, and to explain why the Catholic Church is the only Church founded by Our Lord Jesus Christ to redeem mankind from his sins. Dialogue cannot be used as a give and take when one is talking about Absolute Truth, or to water down the Deposit of Faith to accommodate people who follow other gods or who belong to other Christian churches.

  22. Robert says:

    alohalady
    Roman used Pluralism of Deities for its own Ends. But those Christian martyrs would NOT worship false Gods and gave their lives for the Truth Christ! The Blood of those martyrs conquered pagan Rome.
    To worshipping other deities is to Apostacise.
    Free Masonry believes in an encourages Pluralism so this action is pure Masonry!
    A Pope bowing to Mecca is implying that Our Lord was only a Prophet and subservient to Mohammed!
    St Peter gave His Life as did St Paul as a witness to Christ.
    St. Francis of Assisi meets with Sultan al-Kamil in 1219 to Convert Him to Christ!
    Our Lord said
    Matthew 12:30
    Luke 11:23
    Mark 9:40
    So there can be NO misunderstanding over this.

  23. toad says:

    “How can you pray to God in the house of a false ‘g’od?”
    Same way the Poles did under Communism, I suppose.
    I pray to God in a sunflower field sometimes. Is that no good, either?

  24. kathleen says:

    Yes of course, Toad, one can pray to God in any place and at any time. As St Teresa of Avila once said, you can pray to God anywhere, “even among the pots and pans”. And the Little Flower said that never in her life had more than three minutes gone by without her “thinking of God”. She did not spend all her day on her knees in Church praying, so obviously her whole life whilst she went about her daily duties was spent in prayer and contemplation.
    We should all strive to have this constant awareness of the presence of God and send up little prayers to Him as we go about our day.

    The problem with the Pope praying inside a mosque is different. Here he is making a sort of public statement that says that the Muslim understanding of god is the same as the Christian God, and it matters not where and how we pray to Him. This can only lead to a misconception of the Nature of God, and much confusion. In a way, such an action unintentionally belies the Divinity of Christ (that the Muslims reject) and Our Lord’s saving Death and Resurrection (that they also reject), on which Christianity is based.

  25. Robert says:

    Charity follows the Order of the ten commandments.

    1/ God and not just any God, that’s pluralism. Neither Islam nor Judaism recognise the Trinity. The Trinity was proven through Our Lord in his public Life. The first Commandment is putting God FIRST.

    2/ Thy neighbour as thyself.
    Now in the world there are those for their own interest who subscribe to Charity BUT without God. Often this Charity is for instance Family Planning, Abortion; Contraception etc..

    Being humble and charitable in the judgement of the World and in the eyes of the world BUT that ignores God is just a cloak and a false cloak.

    Peter’s Authority isn’t a democratic vote by a College of Cardinals/Bishops, just like a President. No Peter’s Authority is He is the visible representative of an invisible Trinity. He must put God first, this is what Our Lord asked St Peter Lovest Thou Me more than the rest?

    The Early Christians DID not pray in places dedicated to pagan deities! Rather choosing death.

    We must see through the eyes of Our Faith and not those of the world!

  26. toad says:

    Well over half of the world’s population has a different conception of “the nature of God” to Catholics.
    Most of them probably believe their conception is the correct one. It is as well to keep that in mind.

  27. Robert says:

    Toad
    The difference is Our Lord is Word (second person of the Trinity) made Flesh. The Messiah! There is a huge difference in those who don’t know and those blessed with the Faith and the sacraments!
    The More you know the more is expected of you in God’s eyes! This makes the Apostacy of the West so dreadful!!
    The saints and indeed Our Lord in dealing with ALL men. The Church has plenty of examples in saints and martyrs and missionaries.
    Very different to indulge in pluralism when you are Peter!

  28. toad says:

    “1/ God and not just any God, that’s pluralism. “
    Nobody on earth worships “…just any old God,” Regbot.
    They each worship The One True God. as they each see it.

    [Moderator: Most of this comment deleted + 2 other heretical comments on another post.]

    (Troublemaking big -time today – aren’t we Toad? Waste of time, most like. All get censored.)

    [Moderator: YOU said it.]

  29. Robert says:

    Toad
    St Augustine is worth looking at, he demonstrated the lack of virtue, actually the vice of the pagan gods! Here is the problem once you accept the existence of an invisible spiritual existence how do you know whether you are dealing with Hell (the demon) or Heaven.
    To many confuse this issue over the existence of God which is as old as Man. Our Lord didn’t come to prove the existence of God! He came to Redeem Man from Original Sin AND revealed the Trinity and a God of Virtue AND Graces.
    Given the Truth and Graces much more is expected of Us than poor sinners who know no better!

  30. Robert says:

    Feast of the martyrs of the Theban Legion (Egyptian soldiers)

    When the Emperor Maximian (Roman Emperor from 286 to 305) led his army into Gaul, he stopped at the frontiers of the Seduni to offer a sacrifice (to their gods). The Theban legion, that they might not be defiled by any share in the unhallowed rites, with drew themselves from the rest of his army. Therefore the Emperor sent soldiers unto them to bid them in his name, if they valued their lives, come back into the camp to the sacrifice. They answered that the Christian religion did not allow them. This answer enkindled in him greater wrath than before. He therefore despatched a part of his army to the Thebans, with orders to begin by killing one man in every ten of them. By their own will, and at the urgent exhortation of Maurice, they chose rather to endure this martyrdom than to do the commandment of the unrighteous Emperor. At the last, the Emperor, upon the 22nd day of September, bade his whole army fall upon them and slay them all. They confessed Christ bravely even to the end.

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