Does this make any sense? (Four pro-life memes)

From National Pro-Life Alliance

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What was that you were saying about “choice”?

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18 Responses to Does this make any sense? (Four pro-life memes)

  1. toadspittle says:

    “Does his make sense?” No. Utter gibberish.
    There is a very good case to be made against abortion. This rag-bag of half-baked nonsense is not it. For example,:
    “Make your choice before I’m conceived, not after!”
    …Would be a first-rate advertisement for contraception. ( …I suggest.) Is that what “pro-lifers” are in favour of?

    Anyone got any concrete evidence Dawkins really ever said something so utterly idiotic? Anything’s possible, I suppose. We shall just have to wait and see. But what if the biologist had said; “Any ape fetus is less human than an adult pig.” …Would he say that?

  2. The Raven says:

  3. Robert says:

    Thank you Kathleen
    Elsewhere I am trying to get across the Truth of Man’s Fallen Nature (Original Sin) and the madness of this preoccupation with the Flesh and denial (neglect) of the spirit.
    BC (Man subjected to Original Sin and His reasoning Dull (Blind).
    AD Man through Baptism freed from Original Sin and the Light Of Christ.
    Understand Sin means that Man knows less and less and His reasoning has become Blind.
    The Blind following the Blind.

  4. toadspittle says:

    Dawkins and Toad must disagree on that.
    I suppose he means “less conscious,” or “less developed.” Well, that’s true.
    But it’s missing the point… Irrelevant.
    Still, it makes you think, doesn’t it?

  5. kathleen says:

    Dear Roger/Robert,

    I’m afraid I have not seen more than one of your comments that the moderator later erased, so I cannot comment on what you were “trying to get across”. However, it appears they were a repetition of statements you have posted many times before, so I think you have made it clear what your views are on Evolution.

    But here the topic is the horror of Abortion, and the twisted arguments pro-abortion followers use in their arguments. This excerpt from an article on ‘OnePeterFive’ might interest you:

    […] As the hardened hearts and sin-dimmed intellects of so many in our civilization — which, through endless indulgence and brutality, now lies gasping on death’s doorstep — continue to find ways to justify, defend, and obfuscate what abortion is and what it does, we must press the case. We must continue to push forward with the truth. It is an interesting data point that many who have no ethical problem with abortion eschew religion, and instead worship at the altar of science.

    But science is on our side.

    As medical technology advances, we become every year more aware of the full humanity of the child in utero. We see in the ultrasound scan of her face the features of her mother, we notice the fine details in his tiny fingers and toes, we recognize the response to external stimuli, we are confronted with the inexorable reality that these are children, not “choices.”

    It is for those who advocate their dismemberment and disposal to explain away these horrors. It is for them to be confronted with the science of embryology and fetal development and be forced to admit: “Yes, we know that abortion is the taking of a human life, and we are willing to stand by it.” Abortion proponents stand shoulder to shoulder not just with Margaret Sanger and George Bernard Shaw, but Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin, Mao Tse-tung, Pol Pot, and their more modern progeny. Estimates are that Communism and Nazism alone are responsible for the death of over 100 million people in the 20th century.

    But since 1980, the global abortion toll is over ONE BILLION LIVES.

  6. Robert says:

    Kathleen
    Our Lord made it very clear James 4:1 whence Wars and contentions come from “..Are they not hence, from your concupiscences, which war in your members?..”

    What has the duality of Mans Nature to do with Abortion? The answer is the festering Naturalism (Rationalism, Modernism) that surfaced in 19th century and that was seen in the worship of Reason (French Revolution). It is to treat man as an animal without a living soul.
    Understand that husbandry of animals is as old as man. To apply husbandry techniques to Man the animal is what Abortion; Birth Control; Eugenics is all about. How did this surface Evolution!

    To isolate Abortion without understanding the mindset of the rational scientific thinking behind this is to treat the symptom without cutting out the cancer.

    The war in mans members?
    The world the flesh and the Devil
    “The flesh lusteth against the spirit, and the spirit against the flesh.”

    Romans 8 is replete with this battle between flesh and spirit.
    6 For the wisdom of the flesh is death; but the wisdom of the spirit is life and peace.
    7 Because the wisdom of the flesh is an enemy to God; for it is not subject to the law of God, neither can it be.
    8 And they who are in the flesh, cannot please God.
    9 But you are not in the flesh, but in the spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

    This sadly is the fruit of Original Sin (goes back to man as Created that Flesh and a living Soul)

    This is from Catholic Encyclopedia
    “..Christ by His death redeemed mankind from sin and its bondage. In baptism the guilt of original sin is wiped out and the soul is cleansed and justified again by the infusion of sanctifying grace. But freedom from concupiscence is not restored to man, any more than immortality; abundant grace, however, is given him, by which he may obtain the victory over rebellious sense and deserve life everlasting. ..”

    Viewing Man as an evolved animal (without a living soul) entraps Him in concupiscence (self) and His Mind is blinded(Faith is Light).
    Modern science so called denies the Creator it is actually going further away from Him. Think back to the Greeks and their reasoning (Aristotle recognised an immortal member in Man) and ended up believing in Reincarnation! Mans Reasoning without the Light of Christ becomes Darkness.

    This Blindness and Dull reasoning results in applying husbandry techniques to Mankind ( Marx and Darwin) and this includes culling (abortion birth control) because of the denial of Man as Created by God with a living soul.

  7. toadspittle says:

    “Modern science so called denies the Creator it is actually going further away from Him.”
    No it doesn’t, and no it isn’t. Modern science (all science, in fact) is not concerned with whether there’s a Creator or not. Any Catholic scientist will tell you that. Lots of scientists are atheists. Some aren’t. These spend the week working on improving laser surgery, or drones, or whatever, and go to Mass on Sunday. They do not deny the Creator.

    “Viewing Man as an evolved animal (without a living soul) “
    Of course Man has a living soul. All animals do. Even insects.

  8. Roger says:

    Toad
    Its actually the Faith. Our Lord James 4:1
    Revelation means Truths which Man isn’t capable of reaching through human reasoning.
    That’s why it was revealed. Its why the Gospels are called Gospels.

    There isn’t really anything new in modern science is there that can’t be found in the past (especially the Greeks) including Evolution and Atoms. But their human reasoning took them away from the Truth. If Science is searching for Truth then this must lead to God, who is Truth, but it doesn’t does it?

    I follow science and have no problems with science. Catholics must believe Revelation and Dogma else they wouldn’t be Catholic would they?

    Man has this dual Nature not found in the animals or Angels.
    Animals are living creatures (flesh) but God didn’t breath into them a living soul.
    Angels have living spirits but not flesh

    God Created Man from the Earth (Adam means Red Earth) and breathed in to Him a living soul Genesis 2:7.

    Man will never die, but his destiny in Eternity is with God Or the Pain of Eternal separation from God. The Resurrection proves by the way that Man will be reunited that’s the duality of flesh and soul.

    This is where the Great Marian Dogmas were given to Man in Our time. Our Lady is a creature (without Sin Immaculate) she is in Heaven Body and Soul (Assumption).

    When Sin is dressed up as a human right then you can see the Truth of Romans 8:6. But then if you deny God then any human beastility becomes a right doesn’t it?

  9. toadspittle says:

    “But then if you deny God then any human beastility becomes a right doesn’t it?”
    No, Robert. Because Dawkins, or Hawking, or any Atheist, denies – not God Himself, but the idea of the existence of Him (there is a subtle but important difference) – doesn’t mean they have “the right” to go around burning people whose ideas they regard as heretical at the stake. Or even stealing and telling lies, or sleeping with other men’s wives. Atheists may (or may possibly not) do some of these things, but they don’t have the right.

  10. kathleen says:

    Robert (or Roger) @ 01:10

    Although I do agree in general with what I think you are trying to get at here, I don’t believe it is helpful in seeing ‘science’ (without specifying what you mean by the whole body of scientific research) as a problem to religious belief. Rather than blame “science” for Man’s solely material condition, – i.e., denying therefore that he is made in God’s Image and Likeness, and the existence of his immortal soul – blame instead the militant atheistic mindset that reduces Man to no more than a lump of meat! It’s Atheism that has allowed the evil of Abortion (and all the horrific buying and selling of baby parts included in this atrocity) to have prospered and to have reached such mind-boggling proportions.

    “Modern science (all science, in fact) is not concerned with whether there’s a Creator or not. Any Catholic scientist will tell you that.”

    Toad is right here.

    Science is not the enemy of Faith; it is a way of understanding the world through material evidence, nothing more. There are even times when it has been of great assistance to religion, as in its experiments on the Holy Shroud of Turin.

  11. Robert says:

    I follow science and have nothing against science.
    I understand your opinions but the reality is that modern science and its studies religion with pyschology and evolution has already judged Faith as well as explained it.

    I hope you will read through the following recent articles from New Scientist which is an influencial source of reading for scientists.

    https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg23030710-800-why-are-religions-so-judgemental-ask-evolution/
    “..The rise of moralising religions like Christianity can be explained by evolution – and so can their eventual downfall, says evolutionary psychologist Nicolas Baumard ..”

    Refering to the above Published 18 May 2016
    “..Morality in history, life and religion
    From Valerie Moyses
    Pre-Christian religions did concern themselves with morality. Egyptians believed over 4000 years ago that the soul would be judged. Prehistoric hunter-gatherer religions did not concern themselves with sexual morality, since for them the paternity of a child did not matter.
    When people settled, men amassed goods and assets – which they wanted to benefit their true offspring, not a potential cuckoo in the nest. Women then had to be forced into monogamy. Hence honour killings, child marriage, female genital mutilation… all in the name of religion. Morality-based religions were invented by men to control women. If it ever happens, true male-female equality, not evolution, will cause moralising religions to vanish.
    ..”

    And this Published 18 May 2016
    Morality in history, life and religion
    From Jack Burns
    Nicolas Baumard says that the elite were the ones promoting new religions to protect their interests (30 April, p 35). In Christianity, the elite were the ones who wanted Jesus dead. The Pharaoh tried to stop Moses from spreading Judaism. In Islam it was the rich traders and leaders who wanted to stop the Prophet.

    Throughout history the poor have been the early adopters of moralising religions and the rich have tried to stop them.
    ..”

    For current Evolution theory for complex organisms .
    https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22930660-100-evolution-learn-natural-selection/
    I suggest you read that article (as far as it goes). It starts with a serious critique of the popular model that I have already pointed out here! “..So how does natural selection come up with such good solutions to the problem of survival so quickly, given population sizes and the number of generations available? ..”
    “..A bold new theory says it learns and remembers past solutions just as our brains do ..”

    So the idea that Science isn’t anti Religion isn’t born out by modern scientists is it?

    New Scientist is useful for understanding the state of modern science and where the research and money is going. Sadly the research that is behind Abortion, Birth Control (I call it culling) and the scientist that work there are just doing a job and applying the science. Sin is reduced at antiquated obsolete Morality

    This is what Our Lord explained to Us James 4:1
    But as you can see and understand this is material (Flesh) and Romans 8 explains the inevitable. I think perhaps you can now begin to understand how Evolution has expanded out into the pyschology of Man. Into Man’s Mind and memory etc.. There is no room for the Spirit is there?

    These articles are just one manifestation of what is a Post Anti Christian West. Mans Science is leading Him away from God and that means spiritual blindness (Night) because Christ is the Light of the World.

    Toad great scientists do shine Earthly Lights there is no denying this BUT this light is cold and worldly devoid of spirituality. Our Lord prefers a Saint Bernadette to an Einstein!

    Sadly if you search you will find many other examples of modern science using evolution as an explaination of Religion and morality (Religious gene).

    The Holy Shroud Kathleen Yes!!
    What a gift to Man in the Age of Photography the serene kingly beauty of the Holy Face and the awful evidence of scourging, crown of thorns, crucifixion. The Agony of the Passion traced out on that Body image (the absence of a belly button [not umbilical cord with the virgin birth]) .
    Science judged it and dismissed it as a forgery.

    The Fathers of the Church spoke of the Passion of the Church believing that the mystical Body would recreate the Life and Resurrection of Our Lord.

  12. Robert says:

    I apologise for the length of the above. Its important to know current science rather than have outdated opinions.

  13. toadspittle says:

    “… that modern science and its studies religion with pyschology and evolution has already judged Faith as well as explained it.”
    There is clearly no end to this. Still, we plod on. – Roger – Science does not judge things. It is not a person, not a judge. Now is it? Not has it ever “explained,” faith. Because faith is inexplicable. I can’t explain why I have faith that Beethoven is better than Beyonce.

    “..blame instead the militant atheistic mindset that reduces Man to no more than a lump of meat!”Utter nonsense. No sane mindset does that. And Atheists are not insane (not generally – much like Catholics. No doubt there are mad ones, and sane ones.) Man is a thinking, reasoning, animal. Vastly mentally superior to, say, a pig*. Nobody denies that, not even “Militant Atheists.”
    No pig has the brain power requited to vote for Brexit or, if American – Donald Trump.
    There. That proves it.

    *Vastly worse looking, too.

  14. Roger says:

    Toad

    All I can do is present you with what is the current published state, which is a sample, of what is recognised as main stream science. The logical consequences that flow to and from this research and these studies carry more weight with governments and legislators than Christ. Christ is dumped alongside other religions (called comparative religion, which itself is researched and studied and judged).

    You are missing the point of this research, it is not judging it is explaining through its central tenet Evolution the existence of faiths. It places faiths within Evolutionary defined epochs.

    If you go back to St Pauls Letter to the Romans you see the consequences of ignoring the duality of Man and following materialism(Flesh).

    You are seeing the actual state and mindset of mainstream current thinking. Society reflects this research and hence the entrenchment of Abortion, Birth Control, etc..

    Modern Science owns a great deal to the research and studies carried out by Hitlers scientists. At the end of the war german top scientists and their notes/research were snapped up by the west. This was acknowledged for instance in the Space Race (rocketry) and the Arms race.

  15. toadspittle says:

    “Modern Science owns a great deal to the research and studies carried out by Hitlers scientists. At the end of the war German top scientists and their notes/research were snapped up by the west. This was acknowledged for instance in the Space Race (rocketry) and the Arms race.”
    Quite correct, Roger – but so what? – we all know about Von Braun. It still doesn’t make Science “Nazi” does it?
    They had the skills. Space travel is neither good nor bad. It has the potential to be used for either. Like everything else.
    Other branches of Science (i.e. medicine) should have priority, in my estimation, but I don’t know. (or care, all that much.)
    God, I’m sick of all this.

  16. toadspittle says:

    “The logical consequences that flow to and from this research and these studies carry more weight with governments and legislators than Christ.”
    No doubt they do, and quite right, too. “Render unto Caesar…etc.”
    You are living in a fantasy world, Rebrot,
    Which is good, because I relish your curious world – although my conscience tells me I probably oughtn’t.
    …and should really be “peevish.”
    So, maybe I’m not really so sick of all this as all that.

  17. Robert says:

    When Our Lord said “Render unto Caesar etc..”
    That Fallen world was under Satan’s domain wasn’t it? (Caesar’s Empire was that of a Fallen World).
    However the Passion destroyed this Satanic dominion over Man .Christ through His Church converted and conquered Caesar’s Empire (and this is deliberately forgotten).

    Man However has Free Will and in His Apostacy has rechained himself to and is a slave to His Concupiscences. In these times Christ Kingdom is seen as fantasy?

    Hitlers Doctors conducted medical experiments conducted on humans!

  18. kathleen says:

    Toad @ 03:00 (5th July)

    “Utter nonsense” – (referring to my words in second paragraph).

    It is anything but “utter nonsense”, Toad. How else do you think Planned Parenthood and its supporters see the unborn child? To be capable of ripping him from the safety of his mother’s womb, chopping up his organs for profit, and tossing the rest down a hospital sluice, this little defenceless human being is converted (in their eyes) into nothing more than “a lump of meat”!!

    Of course not all Atheists condone PP’s methods, nor are all Atheists pro-Abortion, though certainly the majority appear to be in favour. For it can only be by a holding ‘an atheistic mentality’ – i.e., seeing man as nothing more than a superior type of animal due to his greatly ‘developed’ brain – that one could commit (or agree with) such inhumane atrocities.

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