Pope Francis: Reform of the Reform is an Error

November 10, 2016

Texts of Argentina homilies come with pope’s notes on preachingThe cover of a new collection of then-cardinal archbishop Jorge Mario Bergoglio’s homilies, introduced by an interview with Fr Antonio Spadaro SJ

Introducing a new collection of his homilies and speeches when Archbishop of Buenos Aires, Pope Francis tells Fr Antonio Spadaro SJ that the post-Vatican II council liturgy is “here to stay”.

A pastor out of touch with his parishioners’ lives has little chance of preaching a homily that can make the Gospel come alive for them, Pope Francis said.

“Sometimes our words respond to questions nobody is asking,” he said in a new interview with Jesuit Father Antonio Spadaro, editor of the Jesuit journal, La Civiltà Cattolica. “If you don’t listen to people, how can you preach?”

The interview introduces a new collection, in Italian, of homilies and speeches he gave as archbishop of Buenos Aires, Argentina, from 1999 until his election as pope in 2013.

Presenting the volume, Jesuit Father Federico Lombardi, former papal spokesman, said the more than 1,000 pages of text include all the homilies for which a written record could be found or for which there was a recording that could be transcribed.

Cardinal Pietro Parolin, Vatican secretary of state, told reporters Nov. 10 that the book is invaluable to understanding the roots of Pope Francis’ ministry and the development of his pastoral style.

Reading the texts, the cardinal said, “one not only can imagine the bishop who walks the streets or rides the subway of his city and diocese,” as the former Archbishop Jorge Mario Bergoglio did, “but one also will gain perspective for seeing him come to the balcony of St. Peter’s Basilica.”

This record of his ministry in Argentina also shows how his words and gestures as pope come from a ministry that always focused on discernment and mercy, Cardinal Parolin said.

Cardinal-designate Blase J. Cupich of Chicago, who also spoke at the book presentation, said Pope Francis’ pastoral experience as a bishop is now placed at the service of the universal church.

In the book, he said, “I did not find pastoral theories or technical formulas; I found a life lived, experience and wisdom.”

Calling Pope Francis “the first – and perhaps only – Jesuit pope in history,” Father Arturo Sosa, the new superior general of the Jesuits, said the interview with Father Spadaro and the texts in the collection show how much Pope Francis enjoys and ministers through conversation.

“His homilies are a form of spiritual conversations,” which is why the pope finds it so important to make a personal contact with people, even if the altar is far from the front row of faithful.

Although now forced to write out his homilies for public events so they can be translated in advance, Pope Francis said he dislikes the practice and, whenever possible, he adds at least a few words or phrases to show he is speaking directly to the people in front of him.

When he preaches to a crowd in St. Peter’s Square, “I don’t see a crowd; I try to look at least at one person, a precise face,” he told Spadaro.

Pope Francis said that his small morning Masses in the chapel of his residence, the Domus Sanctae Marthae, allow him to continue to preach in the way he prefers.

“When I speak, I have to speak to someone,” he said. “I have this profound need” for a direct connection with the congregation, so “I have this impulse to depart from the text, to look in someone’s eyes.”

While admitting that it does not always work, Pope Francis has a regular practice for preparing his homilies for the morning Masses in his residence chapel.

“I start the day before, at noon the day before,” he said. “I read the texts for the next day and, usually, I choose one of the two readings” on which to focus.

“I read the passage I have chosen out loud. I need to hear the sound, to listen to the words.

“And then in the booklet I use, I underline the words that strike me most. I make little circles around words that strike me,” he said.

“During the rest of the day, the words and thoughts come and go while I do what I have to do: meditate, reflect, savor,” he said.

“There are some days, though, when evening comes and still nothing has come to mind. I have no idea what I will say the next day. In that case, I do what St. Ignatius said: I sleep on it. And, then, when I wake up, inspiration comes. The right things come to mind. Sometimes they are strong, sometimes weak. But that’s the way it is.”

Listening to people’s stories, including in the confessional, is essential for preaching the Gospel, he said. “The further you are from the people and their problems, the further you hide behind a theology framed as ‘You must and you must not,’ which doesn’t communicate anything, which is empty, abstract, lost in nothingness.”

Asked about the liturgy, Pope Francis insisted the Mass reformed after the Second Vatican Council is here to stay and “to speak of a ‘reform of the reform’ is an error.”

In authorizing regular use of the older Mass, now referred to as the “extraordinary form,” now-retired Pope Benedict XVI was “magnanimous” toward those attached to the old liturgy, he said. “But it is an exception.”

Pope Francis told Father Spadaro he wonders why some young people, who were not raised with the old Latin Mass, nevertheless prefer it.

“And I ask myself: Why so much rigidity? Dig, dig, this rigidity always hides something, insecurity or even something else. Rigidity is defensive. True love is not rigid.”

From KathNet:

In an interview with the Jesuit priest Antonio Spadaro, Pope Francis addressed the question of Liturgy saying that it was a mistake to speak of “a reform of the reform”.

Speaking of the liturgical celebration in the extraordinary form, according to “Vatican Radio”, Francis said: “Pope Benedict has made a proper and generous gesture by approaching a certain mentality of different groups and people who were nostalgic and had distanced themselves. But that is an exception, which is why we speak of the ‘extraordinary’ form of the rite, which is not the proper form. “
According to Francis, the Second Vatican Council and the Liturgical Constitution Sacrosanctum Concilium had to be implemented according to their meaning. In the past, it was among others the Prefect of the Liturgy Congregation, Cardinal Robert Sarah, who had proposed a ‘Reform Reform’. To this, Francis now said: “To speak of a reform of reform is a mistake.”

CP&S comment: One can only wonder what Pope Benedict would make of this?

Further reading: Is Cardinal Sarah being silenced

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27 Responses to Pope Francis: Reform of the Reform is an Error

  1. JabbaPapa says:

    and “to speak of a ‘reform of the reform’ is an error.”

    Funny, Pope Benedict XVI said exactly the same thing, and yet was not accused of all evils by sundry traddies …

    The Council of Trent established definitively that the Pope has a monopoly for the establishment of Liturgical Norms.

  2. mmvc says:

    Funny, Pope Benedict XVI said exactly the same thing, and yet was not accused of all evils by sundry traddies …

    Not exactly. The two popes are clearly not singing from the same liturgical hymn sheet.

    A brief refresher:

    Pope Benedict:
    “What earlier generations held as sacred, remains sacred and great for us too.”

    Back in 2011, post Summorum Pontificum, Cardinal Koch said Pope Benedict’s ‘reform of the reform’ in liturgy would continue…

    No mention there of pandering to nostalgic ‘oldies’ or expressions of surprise about V2 ‘youngsters who prefer the Latin Mass’.

    Compare and contrast:
    Pope Francis: In authorizing regular use of the older Mass, now referred to as the “extraordinary form,” now-retired Pope Benedict XVI was “magnanimous” toward those attached to the old liturgy, he said. “But it is an exception.”

    Pope Benedict:“twofold use of one and the same” Roman Rite”
    The broad permission given in Summorum Pontificum is not, as some have argued, designed primarily to cater to small groups of radical “traditionalists.” To the contrary, the Holy Father explicitly mentions two groups as having a legitimate and influential affinity for the old Missal—members of the older generation that had “deep, personal familiarity with the earlier Form;” and “young persons” who “have discovered this liturgical form, felt its attraction and found in it a form of encounter with the Mystery of the Most Holy Eucharist, particularly suited to them.”

    Pope Francis:
    [Abp. Jan Graubner speaks:] When we were discussing those who are fond of the ancient liturgy and wish to return to it, it was evident that the Pope speaks with great affection, attention, and sensitivity for all in order not to hurt anyone. However, he made a quite strong statement when he said that he understands when the old generation returns to what it experienced, but that he cannot understand the younger generation wishing to return to it. “When I search more thoroughly – the Pope said – I find that it is rather a kind of fashion [in Czech: ‘móda’]. And if it is a fashion, therefore it is a matter that does not need that much attention. It is just necessary to show some patience and kindness to people who are addicted to a certain fashion. But I consider greatly important to go deep into things, because if we do not go deep, no liturgical form, this or that one, can save us.”

    Pope Benedict:
    Immediately after the Second Vatican Council it was presumed that requests for the use of the 1962 Missal would be limited to the older generation which had grown up with it, but in the meantime it has clearly been demonstrated that young persons too have discovered this liturgical form, felt its attraction and found in it a form of encounter with the Mystery of the Most Holy Eucharist … . … What earlier generations held as sacred, remains sacred and great for us too, and it cannot be all of a sudden entirely forbidden or even considered harmful. It behooves all of us to preserve the riches which have developed in the Church’s faith and prayer, and to give them their proper place. (Benedict XVI, July 7, 2007 Letter to Bishops)

    The Council of Trent established definitively that the Pope has a monopoly for the establishment of Liturgical Norms.

    Only to have them ignored/dismissed as unimportant/altered by his successor…

    God bless and help Cardinal Sarah!

  3. mmvc says:

    …accused of all evils by sundry traddies

    Oh, grow up, please!

  4. marysong says:

    “You must and you must not” … doesn’t communicate anything, which is empty, abstract, lost in nothingness … Pope Francis. That does sweep away the Ten Commandments.

    Attachment to the Catholic Roman Latin Mass is not a ‘nostalgia.’ That is a a word used to brainwash Catholics down through the past fifty years. You’re supposed to ‘shut up’ when accused of being nostalgic. Doesn’t work on some of us. “The sacrifice of the Mass, the Unbloody renewal of the Sacrifice of the Cross, is not only the central point of Catholic worship, but even more so, the Church’s very heart without which the Church simply cannot survive. The current situation (1977) in the Church proves only too tragically how right the late Cardinal Newman was when he wrote: “Tolle Missam, tolle Ecclesiam! Destroy the Mass, and you destroy the Church”!! Rev. Dr. Gommar A. De Pauw: The Traditional Latin Roman Catholic Mass

    The idea of Sacrifice has slowly ebbed away. Grace grows weak in the world. I wish that Pope Francis would talk about this.

    Thanks so much for an interesting article.

  5. JabbaPapa says:

    mmvc, the exact quote from Benedict XVI is hard to locate, because it was very under-reported, even dismissed, when he made it — but Father Lombardi made basically the same one recently, during the ad orientem “argument” that Cardinal Sarah started : http://angelusnews.com/articles/vatican-spokesman-wades-into-ad-orientem-debate – “Fr. Lombardi then reiterated that “there are therefore no foreseen new liturgical directives starting next Advent, as some have improperly deduced from some of Cardinal Sarah’s words.” He added that “it is better to avoid using the expression ‘the reform of the reform’, in referring to the liturgy, since it can at times be a source of misunderstandings.”

    This is a point that was originally made by the Pope Emeritus.

    I do not dispute at all that the ideas of the current Pope concerning the Mass are in some areas at odds with those of his predecessor, and I think the Pope was completely wrong to characterise the TLM and the Latin Mass generally, not excluding a Latin or Latinate NO given in the “spirit” of the TLM, as “an exception” and “not the proper form” because of so-called “rigidity”.

    As far as that’s just the expression of a personal preference fair enough, but a Pope should avoid seeming to suggest that there might be general truth to strictly personal opinions.

    But then when Pope Francis tells Fr Antonio Spadaro SJ that the post-Vatican II council liturgy is “here to stay”, he’s right — the NO can no more be “abolished” than the TLM can, as the Council of Trent has definitively established concerning all officially established Latin Rite, when the Council Fathers repressed all liturgical forms not expressly approved by a Roman Pontiff.

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  7. kathleen says:

    mmvc @ 23:02 yesterday

    That was a brilliant, well laid out comment, with its relevant quotes. I would call the attitudes of Pope Benedict XVI vs. Pope Francis towards the Sacred Liturgy just about as far apart as it is possible to be.

    Pope Francis told Father Spadaro he wonders why some young people, who were not raised with the old Latin Mass, nevertheless prefer it.

    He actually wonders this?? He cannot understand how “some young people” prefer it? He thinks the sublime Tridentine Mass is “rigid’? He does not see how this holy well-named Mass of the Ages, that has nourished countless souls and brought men to the heights of sanctity, is “the most beautiful thing this side of Heaven”? He never discovered, pre V2, when it was the only Mass he must have attended, its abundant graces and its transcendent magnificence, lifting the soul to God?
    Well, young people well educated in the Faith, will discover this ‘pearl of great price’ if they are offered it, even if the HF is unable to.

    Really, poor Pope Francis; I am even beginning to feel sorry for him!

  8. JabbaPapa says:

    He actually wonders this??

    To be fair, kathleen, it’s far better that he’s thinking about the question rather than simply dismissing it.

  9. kathleen says:

    He’s not “thinking” about it anymore, Jabs, having already dismissed the matter as just the nostalgic fad of a few quaint oldies. 🙄
    Though what does seem to keep him scratching his head in puzzlement is trying to work out why young people are so passionate about the TLM.
    Shouldn’t he be told?

  10. @Kathleen,
    The quote of the Pope has been truncated from the original; ” I always try to understand what’s behind the people who are too young to have lived the pre-conciliar liturgy but who want it. Sometimes I’ve found myself in front of people who are too strict, who have a rigid attitude. And I wonder: How come such a rigidity? Dig, dig, this rigidity always hides something: insecurity, sometimes even more … Rigidity is defensive. True love is not rigid.” ”
    In context this doesn’t refer to all the young people attending the TLM, but a minority that attend for the wrong reasons. (Note the ellipses, we haven’t got the whole quote yet).

  11. JabbaPapa says:

    Looking into it, here for example – http://chiesaepostconcilio.blogspot.fr/2016/11/bergoglio-sui-giovani-che-amano-il-rito.html#more

    … it is clear that some degree of dishonest quote-mongery is going on.

    Two separate quotes have been placed together to provide a false impression.

    1) “Cerco sempre di capire cosa c’è dietro le persone che sono troppo giovani per aver vissuto la liturgia preconciliare e ancora la vogliono

    (I always seek to understand what’s behind people who are to young to have experienced the pre-conciliar Liturgy and still want it.)

    2) “A volte mi sono trovato di fronte ad una persona molto rigorosa, con un atteggiamento di rigidità e sono chiesto… Perché tanta rigidità? Scava, scava, questa rigidità nasconde sempre qualcosa, insicurezza o anche qualcos’altro : la rigidità sta sulla difensiva, il vero amore non è rigido

    (Sometimes I’ve found myself in front of people who are too strict, who have a rigid attitude. And I wonder: How come such a rigidity? Dig, dig, this rigidity always hides something: insecurity, sometimes even more … Rigidity is defensive. True love is not rigid)

    Taken separately, there’s not much shocking in either quote.

    But smash them together as if they were contiguous, and bam, yet another lie emerges about the Pope from the more extremist Pope-bashers of these interwebs.

  12. JabbaPapa says:

    As for the original “quote” in the main (and sadly mendacious) story, “reform of the reform is an error”, it was made (IF it’s been accurately reported, which is dubious) when he was Archbishop of Buenos Aires, not since his election to the Papacy.

    So this whole thing is just another ludicrous storm in a silly little Pope-bashing teacup.

  13. JabbaPapa says:

    Francis’ Papal Tiara :

    (completely off-topic, but well there ya go)

  14. JabbaPapa says:

    Pope Benedict’s :

  15. mmvc says:

    Thanks for the pics, Jabba. The expression on PF’s face is priceless.

    Caption ideas, anyone?

    You might also like this from Fr Z:

    Our Lord told us, in Matthew 5, “Be you therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect.”

    Now, something that is perfect has no need to change. Need to change implies imperfection. A god who changes wouldn’t be God at all. Dig, dig and we find that God simply cannot change. God is … “rigid”.

    Our Lord told us, in effect, “Be rigid, as also your heavenly Father is rigid!”

    And… come to think of it, God is also Mystery. He could even be said to be hiding something…

  16. Toad says:

    “Do you expect me to put that on my head?”

    …I suppose it’s in the dressing-up box now.
    Or maybe he sent it to Raymond Cardinal Burke.

  17. mmvc says:

    Taken separately, there’s not much shocking in either quote.

    Taken in the light of Abp. Jan Graubner’s exchange with PF, one would be forgiven for thinking that the pope’s current views on the Tridentine Mass are remarkably similar to those he reportedly held as Archbishop of Buenos Aires. But then Abp. Jan Graubner might just be hard of hearing/a poor linguist/a ‘silly little pope-basher’ (take your pick ;-)…

    Assuming he is none of the above and that his account is accurate, isn’t it shocking that the Mass of Ages which Fr Faber called ‘the most beautiful Thing this side of Heaven’ was spoken about by none other than a pope, as ‘a kind of fashion’, an ‘addiction’ which therefore ‘does not need that much attention’?

  18. mmvc says:

    “Do you expect me to put that on my head?”

    Oh and there was I thinking it was a yummy cake… 😦 ” 🙂

  19. mmvc says:

    Jabba @ 21.37, in case you miss it, here is a reply (from Jhayes) to the same comment you left over at Fr Z’s with Father’s bits in bold:

    JabbaPapa, the article you quote is an Italian translation of the original English language article in LifeSite News.

    Here is Rorate’s English translation directly from Fr. Spadaro’s original Italian. Notice that the Pope’s statement is continuous, not assembled out of two pieces.

    [Pope:] “Pope Benedict accomplished a just and magnanimous gesture [translator’s note: the motu proprio ‘Summorum Pontificum’] to reach out to a certain mindset of some groups and persons who felt nostalgia and were distancing themselves. [NO. It was NOT for nostalgia! This is the premise that must be denied.] But it is an exception. That is why one speaks of an ‘extraordinary’ rite. The ordinary in the Church is not this. It is necessary to approach with magnanimity those attached to a certain form of prayer. But the ordinary is not this. Vatican II and Sacrosanctum Concilium must go on as they are. To speak of a ‘reform of the reform’ is an error.” [This is another problem. Sacrosanct Concilium called for only a few things and made sure also to require that nothing done be a break with tradition and that it had really to correspond to a good. It also clearly prescribed the continuation of Latin, etc.]

    I ask him: “Other than those who are sincere and ask for this possibility out of habit or devotion, can this desire express something else? Are there dangers?”

    [Pope:] “I ask myself about this. For example, I always try to understand what is behind those individuals who are too young to have lived the pre-Conciliar liturgy, and who want it nonetheless. I have at times found myself in front of people who are too rigid, an attitude of rigidity. And I ask myself: how come so much rigidity? You dig, you dig, this rigidity always hides something: insecurity, at times perhaps something else… [sic] The rigidity is defensive. True love is not rigid.”

    I insist: what about tradition? Some understand it in a rigid way.

    [Pope:] “But no: tradition blooms!” he responds. “There is a Traditionalism that is a rigid fundamentalism: it is not good. Faithfulness instead implies a growth. Tradition, in the transmission from one age to the next of the deposit of the faith, grows and consolidates with the passage of time, as Saint Vincent of Lérins said in his Commonitorium Primum. I read it always in my breviary: ‘Ita etiam christianae religionis dogma sequatur has decet profectuum leges, ut annis scilicet consolidetur, dilatetur tempore, sublimetur aetate’ (Also the dogma of the Christian religion must follow these laws. It progresses, consolidating with the years, developing with time, deepening with the age.)”

    HERE

  20. kathleen says:

    THR @ 20:25 yesterday

    Hello old friend!
    Yes, I am quite ready to believe that there might well be “some degree of dishonest quote-mongery going on” (as Jabba puts it), perhaps not only in this case we are discussing, but also elsewhere in detriment of orthodox Cardinals and Bishops. There will always be those informing the general public who may have ‘an agenda’ of their own, and will not be totally honest and objective, whether it be in its favour, or against. More often than not though, it will be a reporting hostile to true Christianity, Catholicism in particular, rather then the other way round! That is always the risk we have to take when news comes our way, even in our apparently democratic, open, Western society.

    However, even taking only a rough look at Pope Francis’ views expressed over the years towards the Sacred Liturgy in general, especially the beautiful Tridentine Mass – “views” that he often expresses live, where there is no possibility of twisting his words – we can see very clearly that he is no friend of either. Discussion on the Liturgy even appears to bore him!

    But Jesuits, in general, are well-known for their lack of interest in the Liturgy, putting their focus on other aspects of the Faith. In contrast, most Catholics recognise the real supreme importance of the way men pray, adore God, relate to God, within the Church’s Sacred Liturgy of the Mass! Much of its altering, obliterating, watering-down, etc., since the Second Vatican Council – that some even believe was an aim at its destruction – with the disappearance of the TLM and the appearance of the Novus Ordo Mass, is often cited as the catalyst for the widespread weakening of people’s Faith in the post V2 decades. Lex orandi, lex credendi…

    Even the heretic, Martin Luther, knew that the destruction of Catholic worship would lead to the destruction of the Catholic Faith. His famous quote, repeated in many of his prolific writings: “Take away the Mass, destroy the Church”, says it all. (Of course the hailed Counter Reformation put a stop to this “destruction”!)

    Pope Benedict XVI gave us Summorum Pontificum in July 2007, and the world looked brighter and full of hope. Good and faithful members of the hierarchy were promoting the longed-for ‘Reform of the Reform’ based on the revival of the Sacred Liturgy and a better understanding of the Council’s documents.

    Yet in these last three and a half years, in many aspects this happy reawakening to the hidden treasures of our Church appears to have been put on hold….

    [Edit: Thanks, mmvc. I now see that there was no “degree of dishonest quote-mongery going on” in this above-mentioned case at all! So the argument of those seeking another interpretation, fails once again!]

  21. JabbaPapa says:

    in case you miss it

    kathleen, my response to it is in the queue over there

    Pope Francis is certainly no “liturgist”.

    Yet in these last three and a half years, in many aspects this happy reawakening to the hidden treasures of our Church appears to have been put on hold….

    Perhaps, but when Summorum Pontificum was first published, the analysis was that it would be slow to bear its full fruits.

  22. JabbaPapa says:

    Notice that the Pope’s statement is continuous, not assembled out of two pieces

    But a portion of one answer to one question, and another portion of an answer to a different question have in fact been attached to each other out of context, in such a manner as to deliberately create the false impression that the Pope accused all who love the TLM of “rigidity” — whereas he uses that adjective in answer to a question about those who do NOT practice the TLM in a “sincere” and “devout” manner.

  23. JabbaPapa says:

    I now see that there was no “degree of dishonest quote-mongery going on” in this above-mentioned case at all

    Yes there is.

  24. mmvc says:

    Rorate’s English translation [is] directly from Fr. Spadaro’s original Italian. Notice that the Pope’s statement is continuous, not assembled out of two pieces.

    So if there were any “degree of dishonest quote-mongery going on” in this case, it would be by none other than PF’s fellow Jesuit and friend, Fr Spadaro. Mmmm….

  25. kathleen says:

    @ Jabba

    But a portion of one answer to one question, and another portion of an answer to a different question have in fact been attached to each other out of context, in such a manner as to deliberately create the false impression that the Pope accused all who love the TLM of “rigidity” — whereas he uses that adjective in answer to a question about those who do NOT practice the TLM in a “sincere” and “devout” manner.

    But if this is truly what he meant, what an extraordinarily partisan and prejudiced thing to say! It is totally uncalled for, completely unnecessary, when he was discussing the delight of traditional Catholics and the young who have discovered (and those who have re-discovered) the sublimely holy Tridentine Mass!

    Who are these “rigid” types he refers to who do not practice the TLM in a “sincere” and “devout” way? I don’t know any. However, I have met a few militant liberals in my life who are fiercely “rigid” against traditional Catholics’ love of the Latin liturgy.
    But can you honestly imagine Pope Francis having anything detrimental to say about them? I’d say he agrees with them!

  26. JabbaPapa says:

    Who are these “rigid” types he refers to? I don’t know any.

    NOT those who attend the TLM in a “sincere” and “devout” manner, so it’s no surprise you don’t know any.

    I suspect that the Pope was referring to certain groups who have abused the TLM as a means to express certain anti-Vatican II political views. These same groups are BTW condemned by Benedict XVI in Summorum Pontificum and its explanatory notice.

    mmvc : So if there were any “degree of dishonest quote-mongery going on” in this case, it would be by none other than PF’s fellow Jesuit and friend, Fr Spadaro. Mmmm….

    erm no, by those who have compiled these reports by taking bits and pieces out of the interview and dishonestly assembling them to suggest that the Pope expressed some views different to the statements that were actually made.

  27. mmvc says:

    Well if that is indeed the case, let’s hope that Fr Spadaro will attempt to rectify the errors of these devious report ‘assemblers’. He wouldn’t want the words and sentiments of his friend, the pope, to be misrepresented, as that might upset and confuse the Faithul.

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