Bishop Schneider likens treatment of four Cardinals to Soviet regime

From LifeSiteNews

ROME, December 6, 2016

bishop_schneider_mass2_810_500_55_s_c1Before a packed room in Rome’s Centro Lepanto on Monday, Bishop Athanasius Schneider of Kazakhstan urged the faithful to ardently hold on to the Church’s Magisterium on the indissolubility of marriage within the current state of ongoing ambiguities.

“When Christ preached 2,000 years ago, the culture and reigning spirit were radically opposed to Him. Concretely religious syncretism ruled, also Gnosticism among the intelligent leaders, as well as permissibilism among the masses — especially regarding the institution of matrimony. […] The sole purpose of the Son of God was to reveal the truth to the world.”

With these words, Bishop Schneider opened his presentation in the presence of Cardinals Raymond Burke and Walter Brandmüller and Auxiliary Bishop Andreas Laun of Salzburg, Austria.

Schneider continued with a presentation on the history of the Church’s dealings with marriage and its irregularities beginning from the Old Testament to modernity with specific references to early Christian writings by Henry VIII of England and Napoleon I, and recent discussions.

Regarding the dubia published by the four Cardinals, he told LifeSiteNews in an exclusive interview today that the Church should always foster a “culture of dialogue.”

“The formulation of dubia, as the Cardinals here have expressed in their own terms, has been a common practice in the Church,” he explained. “We need to be able to ask questions openly without being afraid of repressions.”

Bishop Schneider referred to the numerous attacks that the four Princes of the Church have suffered after their dubia was published. The questions still remain unanswered by Pope Francis.

“The reaction to the dubia is a proof of the climate in which we actually live in the Church right now,” Bishop Schneider said. “We live in a climate of threats and of denial of dialogue towards a specific group.”

Schneider went to say that “dialogue seems to be accepted only if you think like everyone else – that is practically like a regime.”

Schneider brought up his experience in Russia, where he was born in the time of the Soviet Union. His parents were sent by Stalin to work camps, or “Gulags,” after the Second World War. “If you didn’t follow the line of the party, or you questioned it, you couldn’t even ask. That is for me a very clear parallel to what is happening now in the reactions to the dubia — questions — of the Cardinals.”

“This is a very sad experience especially since everybody is speaking about a ‘dialogue of culture’ after the Second Vatican Council. While bishops openly teach heresies and nothing happens to them, that is truly a grave injustice and very sad,” Bishop Schneider added.

“If the Pope does not answer, the next step will be recourse to prayer, to supernatural means,” Schneider said, “to pray for the enlightenment of the Pope and that he will gain courage.”

Schneider speculated about what might happen in the near future. “In Church history, we say that in an extreme case in which the bonum commune of the faith is threatened, then the bishops as members of the college of bishops, and in a truly collegial relation to the Pope with a brotherly obedience to him, must ask him publicly to renounce the misdeed of giving Communion to remarried divorced Catholics, as it is already being done in many dioceses.”

Rebutting the attacks of various persons against the Cardinals, he defended the four. “This situation has already had precedences in saints — not in schismatics or heretics. Hilary of Poitiers, St. Catherine of Siena, and I think this should be possible in the Church without the person being called a schismatic.”

Cardinal Burke has said a “formal correction” might be in order to resolve the situation of uncertainty. “In the language of moral theology, fraternal correction is an act of love — if it is given in obedience and with reason,” Schneider commented. “We have to return to this familiar way of dealing with it.”

Schneider ended his interview with LifeSiteNews by saying: “The Holy Father has to bring clarity and support to his brothers in resolving doubts. … We have to pray for that; only clarity will bring unity. If there is to be an answer from the Pope, then it must be unambiguous. He must say what is the truth.”

If you wish to respectfully express your support for the 4 cardinals’ letter to Pope Francis asking for clarity on Amoris Laetitia, sign the petition. Click here.

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31 Responses to Bishop Schneider likens treatment of four Cardinals to Soviet regime

  1. kathleen says:

    What an absolutely outstanding declaration of Christ’s perennial Truth has been given to us by Bishop Schneider here in this short interview on French TV!

    He says it all! It is everything we need to know about this terrible crisis in the Church, a crisis that has so greatly intensified since the release of the Exhortation on Amoris Laetitia, and worsened visibly in the wake of the unanswered dubia being made public. The only positive thing to come from all this (if it can be called “positive”) is that the enemies of Christ’s Gospel, who once were working in darkness to undermine the Church, are now (increasingly) creeping out from the wormwood into the light. We can see their ugly faces of dissent; we know who they are!

    As the battle lines against the forces of evil are drawn up, the Faithful need to step up in our own personal prayer lives and faithfulness to the Church. We need to rally round our loyal and courageous priests and bishops, work with them to eradicate the evil that, like the Trojan Horse, has infiltrated into the City of God.

  2. JabbaPapa says:

    I very much admire Bishop Athanasius Schneider.

    Here’s a story about someone a lot less admirable :

  3. JabbaPapa says:

    The only positive thing to come from all this (if it can be called “positive”) is that the enemies of Christ’s Gospel, who once were working in darkness to undermine the Church, are now (increasingly) creeping out from the wormwood into the light

    I’m still adopting a somewhat wait-and-see position on this particular point, which by itself is of course completely true — because Father Jorge and Bishop Bergoglio used something similar as a strategy against the liberation theologians of Argentina, including the very many Jesuit Fathers who had been seduced by that false ideology. (bearing in mind that only some of the liberation theologians were excommunicated or otherwise reprimanded for Errors or Heresy, and that some parts of the liberation theology are excluded from the general condemnation — this is not to say that it is good theology, but only that Bishop Bergoglio ended up playing a very canny, long game that led to Cardinal Ratzinger’s very detailed condemnation but simultaneously towards a fraternal correction and gathering back into at least a minimal orthodoxy of many of those lost sheep by the Bishop. It’s what earned him his red biretta. This does not mean that it’s what he must be doing now, but the possibility cannot IMO be discounted)

  4. Toad says:

    “…the enemies of Christ’s Gospel, who once were working in darkness to undermine the Church, are now (increasingly) creeping out from the wormwood into the light.”
    Interesting mixed metaphor, but the question is – why would priests want to undermine the Church? Isn’t it more likely they think they are strengthening it, and thus securing their position?
    They may be wrong, possibly, but.

  5. Toad says:

    “Regarding the dubia published by the four Cardinals, he told LifeSiteNews in an exclusive interview today that the Church should always foster a “culture of dialogue.””
    A “culture of dialogue,” is the very last thing a considerable number of Catholics want.
    With whom? Lutherans? What about? The unchanging dogma of Catholicism?
    What’s to discuss?

  6. kathleen says:

    Jabba @ 12:56 yesterday

    Interesting account of Father (later Bishop) Bergoglio’s history of dealing with Liberation Theology in Argentina, Jabba. It surprised me, I must admit, although I’d heard he had been admired by some for his early priestly work in this field.

    I wonder if now, as Pope, he regrets those former methods he used to eradicate the LT ideology, seeing as how so many of his current speeches are along the very same lines as those of the old Liberation Theologists!!
    For that same reason, I doubt very much that he is using that same strategy now to sift out the modernists and progressives, closet Masons, ‘lavendar mafia’, etc., who are working at destroying the Catholic Faith from within. If it were so, with Francis’ apparent tolerance and friendliness towards these groups – even replacing orthodox members of the clergy with such known dissenters to the Magisterium of the Church – it just doesn’t make sense.

  7. mmvc says:

    it just doesn’t make sense.

    I agree, Kathleen. It doesn’t make sense at all.

  8. JabbaPapa says:

    Meanwhile, back at the Vatican …

    December 7, 2016 (LifeSiteNews) – A new document from the Vatican’s Congregation for Clergy released today reiterates that “those who practise homosexuality, present deep-seated homosexual tendencies or support the so-called ‘gay culture'” are not to be admitted to seminaries or be ordained Catholic priests.

    In a new 90-page document titled The Gift of the Priestly Vocation, the Congregation for Clergy wrote that those who live the homosexual lifestyle, support the “gay culture,” or have “deep-seated homosexual tendencies” “find themselves in a situation that gravely hinders them from relating correctly to men and women.”

    “One must in no way overlook the negative consequences that can derive from the ordination of persons with deep-seated homosexual tendences,” it continues.

    … etc …

  9. mmvc says:

    “One must in no way overlook the negative consequences that can derive from the ordination of persons with deep-seated homosexual tendencies,”…

    The journalist and author, Randy Engel has researched and written extensively about the homosexual sub-culture in the Church.

    She also expressed her deep concerns in an open letter to Pope Francis back in 2013.

  10. Toad says:

    “…persons with deep-seated homosexual tendencies…”
    What does that mean? Do these persons have to actually do anything “homosexual”? Or not?
    And how do the rest of us recognise them (either the persons or the tendencies – or both)?

  11. kathleen says:

    Toad, if you read mmvc’s second link in the comment above yours (to a long but truly eye-opening Open Letter by renown Catholic journalist, Randy Engel) you will find the answers to your questions.

    Meanwhile, at this ‘gravely critical moment’: the Catholic Herald has reported how Catholic scholars are calling on bishops to support the four cardinals of the dubia!

  12. Toad says:

    I did read Mmvc’s links, Kathleen, and I’m none the wiser.
    “Randy’s”* article is a farrago of half-baked, ill-digested, nonsense.
    It would be nice, if unlikely,that The Pope actually read the “open letter” by her. It might have cheered him up a bit.
    For one example, “Gays,” are not necessarily “Sodomites.”
    “Like “gay,” the term “homophobia” is a construct…”
    By that bizarre logic, what is the word, “Catholic” then?
    If it’s not a “construct, ” what is it?
    *Why is she called that? I think we should be told.

  13. mmvc says:

    Meanwhile, back at the Vatican …

    …the rules seem to be relaxed to admit those who are only ‘temporarily gay’ (!) to seminary.

  14. johnhenrycn says:

    Toad (17:22) “Why is she [Randy] called that?”

    “Randy is a very popular first name for women (#1695 out of 4276, Top 40%) and a slightly less popular surname for all people (#83965 out of 150436, Top 56%)…Randy entered the list in 1940-1949 and reached its apex position of #679 in the U.S. in the 1950s, but is not found in the list currently.”

    Ms Engel seems to have been born c. 1940 which puts her in the right demographic for Randy.
    MMVC: Ms Engel’s open letter is a very thorough exposition of the homosexual problem, and she has an impressive CV. Regarding her book The Rite of Sodomy – Homosexuality and the Roman Catholic Church, one (unidentified) reviewer writes:

    “Meticulous documentation and references and easy readability are the hallmarks of Randy Engel’s investigative writings, and The Rite of Sodomy…is no exception to the rule. The 1,318-page text contains over 3000 endnotes, a bibliography of over 350 books, is fully indexed and reads like a top-flight mystery thriller — except that it is not fiction — it is true.”

  15. JabbaPapa says:

    …the rules seem to be relaxed to admit those who are only ‘temporarily gay’ (!) to seminary

    Given that the Church defines homosexuality as a behaviour, therefore as actions, and does not describe the tendency as being sinful in itself, it might be sensible to recognise that those capable of practicing sexual continence should be considered differently, so this might be sensible.

  16. mmvc says:

    …this might be sensible.

    Given that the “pedophile scandal was really a homosexual scandal where approximately 80 percent of the victims were post-pubescent males” the (now contradicted) 2008 guidelines from the same congregation seem much more sensible:

    From the CM link above:

    The 2008 guidelines direct seminaries to dismiss men who have not only “deep-seated homosexual tendencies” but also an “uncertain sexual identity.” Of this latter group, the 2008 guidelines say their “path of formation will have to be interrupted.”

    But this isn’t the case in the current manual on seminary formation just promulgated by the Congregation for the Clergy, which leaves such men in the seminary to work out their “transitory problem.” Paragraph 200 of the manual says of these men, “Nevertheless, such tendencies must be clearly overcome at least three years before ordination to the diaconate.”

    The 2008 document, on the other hand, spoke of psychological deficiencies in seminarians, pointing out, “Such immaturity would include … uncertain sexual identity; deep-seated homosexual tendencies; etc. If this should be the case, the path of formation will have to be interrupted.”

    It went on to list problems that “block the vocational journey,” which include “a sexual identity that is confused or not yet well defined.”

    It also didn’t allow conflicted seminarians to stay in formation to work out their psychological difficulties. “If it should be ascertained that the candidate needs therapy, this therapy should be carried out before he is admitted to the seminary or house of formation.”

  17. joe says:

    What’s your point shrill sister?
    I think the professionals should sort out their own mess

  18. JabbaPapa says:

    I only said “might”.

    Given that the “pedophile scandal was really a homosexual scandal where approximately 80 percent of the victims were post-pubescent males”

    The revised guidelines still bar the actively homosexuals from ordination even as deacons (*), and what you describe is a horrendous exact contrary of sexual continence.

    (*) which the most “liberal”-“progressive” Bishops and Seminar directors will just completely ignore anyway, of course 😦

  19. mmvc says:

    (*) which the most “liberal”-“progressive” Bishops and Seminar directors will just completely ignore anyway, of course 😦

    That doesn’t mean the guidelines shouldn’t be very clear and err on the side of extreme caution. The 2005 and 2008 guidelines did just that. So why change them? Pope Benedict had to deal with much of the fallout of the horrendous scandals that wrecked so many lives. He knew what he was doing.

  20. JabbaPapa says:

    So why change them?

    I cannot comment on matters beyond my competences.

  21. JabbaPapa says:

    I’m still extremely pleased with my new 100% titanium spectacle frames

  22. mmvc says:

    I cannot comment on matters beyond my competences.

    Refreshing modesty there, Jabba, though it was more of a rhetorical question. ;o)

    Delighted you like your new specs! [OO]

  23. johnhenrycn says:

    JabbaPapa (formerly) JabbaTheHutt says: “I cannot comment on matters beyond my competences.” And fair enough, because there is no plural form of competence in English, which may be why you cannot comment on “compentences”. Are you perhaps *thinking* in Italian or Latin or Swahili?

    I thought (charitable as I am) that you might have meant competencies, which is a real word in English, but no: competencies is not the plural form of competence. Somewhat different meanings: competence and competency.

    I expect a thousand+word lecture (not 398 words, mind) on my desk by 13:00 GMT today. With proper citations from the OED.

  24. johnhenrycn says:

    Sorry, Jabb, forgot to say why competence does not have a plural form.
    I guess I just assumed it was too obvious to explain to a multi-linguist.

  25. JabbaPapa says:

    … and then he accuses *others* of “pedantry” … /roll-eyes/

  26. JabbaPapa says:

    I expect a thousand+word lecture (not 398 words, mind) on my desk

    Then you are an idiot.

  27. Tom Fisher says:

    Sometimes I wonder what it would have been like to have attended (even in an insignificant role) a great council of the early Church. To have seen and heard saints and scholars wrestle with the fundamental principles of our faith. How uplifting would it have been? Much like reading JH and Jabba fight, perhaps 😉

  28. Tom Fisher says:

    I could not speak and my eyes failed

    Suddenly this all seems very apropos:

    Jabba is the cruelest commenter, breeding
    Toads out of the dead land, mixing
    Memory and desire, stirring
    Dull Ginny’s with spring rain.
    Brother Burrito kept us warm, covering
    Earth in forgetful snow, feeding
    A little life with dried anecdotes.
    John Henry surprised us, coming over the Starnbergersee
    With a shower of rain…

  29. Toad says:

    …Are you sure it was rain, Tom?
    Brown rain?

  30. JabbaPapa says:

    … feeding cat Melmoth’s eye,
    With unreason’d glance of trite imaginary slight.

  31. johnhenrycn says:


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