God’s Will vs. Human Error

From The Remnant:

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104 Responses to God’s Will vs. Human Error

  1. johnhenrycn says:

    I, for one, am very grateful for the apostolate of the Matt family. For half a century, they’ve been fighting the good fight, shouting warnings from rooftops of the dangerous waters into which our leaders are misleading us. Granted, not everything The Remnant says is true – nothing aside from the Bible and infallible doctrine is – and yet I find myself gravitating to that source and similar ones when discomfited by or uncertain about pronouncements from the Holy See and press releases from Vatican City organs, which are increasingly unbelievable, if not heretical. We are living in interesting very exciting times, as goes the ancient Chinese curse.

  2. johnhenrycn says:

    “Were we really once that kind of people? I’ve heard the question asked earnestly when people recall Singin’ in the Rain: Were we really the kind of people who danced on tabletops? And let eight-year-old kids venture into the city on their own? Yes, we were, and yes again, those people of the 1940s are mainly gone now. Gone, too, are the laws, and the ethic, that sustained them.”
    “The Lost Structures of Civility Looking Back on a Chicago childhood in the 1940s”.

    We don’t know what we’ve lost and what awaits us. I enjoyed dinner tonight with a Vietnamese priest who tried something like 14 times before he escaped Vietnam in the 1970s. He spoke of his brother, now a bishop, who also made many attempts to escape – one attempt landed him in a communist jail for a year. This is the type of life to which we are headed unless we put anodyne “peace” platitudes on the back burner and start standing up for Christian civilization, which means denouncing fake civilizations – one in particular of which is a threat to all who do not ascribe to it.

  3. johnhenrycn says:

    Some people – not many – like our valued contributor from Moratinos pretend that agnostism is an option. It is not. Nature – human nature – abhors a vacuum. What – 90%? – of the human race believes in a higher power. If you are not one of us (the religious say) you are eventually doomed and – depending on your religion – you will be dead meat today, if and when we find you. So, even if agnostics and atheists are skeptical of religion as were some 18th Century American Founding Fathers, they should bite their tongues – as did most 18th Century American Founding Fathers – and do what is right for civilization: subscribe to and avow Christianity in one form or another. Atheism and agnosticism are not options except for people who don’t care about people – real people.

  4. Toad says:

    “Some people – not many – like our valued contributor from Moratinos pretend that agnostism is an option. It is not. Nature – human nature – abhors a vacuum. “
    Nature doesn’t “abhor” anything. And agnosticism is not a vacuum, it a a reasonable, pragmatic, way of looking at a very warped world.
    Read Anthony Kenny’s very short book, “What I Believe.” He, like Toad, believes a lot.

    “What – 90%? – of the human race believes in a higher power.”
    And so do I, or there would be no Beethoven, Einstein, Shakespeare, or Velasquez.
    Although probably 90% of the human race believes many things that both you and I, JH – regard as absurd.
    But I see what you are getting at, and I take the point. In “real” life (outside CP&S) I’m careful not to to try to destroy what I privately regard as the illusions of others, Too risky. But we, on here, are made of sterner stuff.

    “Atheism and agnosticism are not options except for people who don’t care about people – real people.”
    You might have a point there. I’m not very fond of The Human Race in general.
    Prefer “dumb” animals.

  5. kathleen says:

    @ JH

    Three great comments from you above!

    I, for one, am very grateful for the apostolate of the Matt family. For half a century, they’ve been fighting the good fight, shouting warnings from rooftops of the dangerous waters into which our leaders are misleading us.

    Me too. Thanks for also sticking your neck out to stand by those ‘knights for Truth’ (like The Remnant crowd) who are not afraid of bitter, hateful criticism from the Modernists in the Church, not even those right at the top of the hierarchy, or to combat their tsunami of anti-Catholic pronouncements.

  6. mmvc says:

    Kathleen and JH, I agree wholeheartedly.

    God bless Michael Matt and all at The Remnant for their courageous and tireless work in defence of the Truth.

  7. Toad says:

    We have a nice, healthy, stimulating, dialogue going on in The Church right now. Two (or maybe more) quite radical ways of seeing Catholicism.
    I, as somewhat of an outsider, regard it as beneficial. But nobody with any sense will care how I regard it.
    We will all make our individual minds up, won’t we?

  8. Tom Fisher says:

    If you are not one of us (the religious say) you are eventually doomed and – depending on your religion – you will be dead meat today, if and when we find you. So, even if agnostics and atheists are skeptical of religion as were some 18th Century American Founding Fathers, they should bite their tongues – as did most 18th Century American Founding Fathers – and do what is right for civilization: subscribe to and avow Christianity in one form or another.

    Ecumenical as always

  9. Tom Fisher says:

    Some people – not many – like our valued contributor from Moratinos pretend that agnostism is an option. It is not. Nature – human nature – abhors a vacuum.

    No no JH, not so. It is an “option”. Possibly the only one. Nobody knows if God exists. You don’t, I don’t, Kathleen doesn’t, Augustine didn’t, St Anselm didn’t, and nor did St John of the Cross. You exist in a world where what is most important to you is irreducibly uncertain.

  10. JabbaPapa says:

    Some people – not many – like our valued contributor from Moratinos pretend that agnostism is an option. It is not.

    Genuine Agnosticism, rather than the usual fake variety, is nearly always misunderstood — Agnosticism is certainly a defect in understanding, but unlike Atheism which proclaims direct falsehoods, Agnosticism that is genuinely agnostic is intrinsically open to Truth, which resides solely in the Revelation and the Holy Church.

    It is certainly a better “option” than atheism, paganism, or the adoption of any fake religion.

  11. JabbaPapa says:

    This video is indefensibly schismatic in its attempt to suggest a pseudo-magisterium against the Holy Magisterium itself, including especially in its overt desire to repress the Magisterial teachings of the Second Vatican Ecumenical Council and the ghastly denial of the validity of the present Pontificate.

    This man is proposing nothing less than overt Heresy.

  12. JabbaPapa says:

    Saying that “this Pontificate must stop” is utterly uncatholic.

  13. JabbaPapa says:

    The interviewee’s utterly evil claims about the political “enemies” of these so-called Remnant [inappropriate word removed], violently and horridly denigrated as “neo-catholics” and indefensibly as being “happy” with the notion of cutting fingers off and pulling tongues out in the name of censorship, are OTOH simply Satanic.

    Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour — this Commandment does not excuse from Mortal Sin those who have been accorded a so-called “PhD” from Oxford.

  14. JabbaPapa says:

    Tom :

    Nobody knows if God exists. You don’t, I don’t, Kathleen doesn’t, Augustine didn’t, St Anselm didn’t, and nor did St John of the Cross.

    You’re wrong. Saint Augustine certainly did (and does), Saint Anselm certainly did (and does), Saint John of the Cross certainly did (and does), the Holy Virgin Saint Mary certainly did (and does), and I myself certainly do know of His Reality, and I am fully in love with Almighty God.

    You make the grotesque Error of thinking that just because you have not been given a Grace of Proof, then therefore nobody has — your intrinsic disbelief will not be forgotten when you find yourself before the Throne.

    I am intimately familiar with the failures of Saint Thomas Apostle’s need for proof in his genuine needs for Truth and Faith, and with the harsh difficulties that the Proof of the Faith provide to the Seers and Visionaries and even the Prophets and Apostles who have needed and received them — poor dear Saint Bernadette Soubirous suffered her whole life from that same need that she had, in a way that dear Lucia of Fatima was spared because her Faith was not dependent on such Proofs that she nevertheless was given.

    You speak in ignorance of Divine Reality, as if your own ignorance were intrinsic to everyone.

    This is to lack Faith in God and in His Christ.

  15. Toad says:

    …So there, Tom.
    But you are right. All anybody “knows,” is that they are convinced that what they believe is a fact.
    As to “..a Grace of Proof,” naturally, I have no idea what it is, nor will you, I suspect.
    Clearly some people believe they have been especially awarded it. Maybe they have – who knows?.
    But they can’t “prove” it to anyone else, not even to others who might also claim to have received it.
    It can only be entirely private – so what sort of a “proof” is that?

    And, if it does exist, those of us who have been denied it can hardly be blamed.

    “your intrinsic disbelief will not be forgotten when you find yourself before the Throne.”
    The authentic voice of Catholicism. Veiled threats and bluster.
    No wonder churches are emptying faster than a cinema when the National Anthem is played.

    “All anybody “knows,” is that they are convinced that what they believe is a fact.”
    …And that includes me, by the way.

  16. Toad says:

    From Jabba’s link. @ 14.16
    “Go back to philosophy 101, Mr. Ivereigh, and review your notes from freshman year at Oxford — presuming they taught it: You cannot love what you do not know.”
    Yer more schoolyard-level bluster and sneering.
    For all I know, Ivereigh may believe utter tripe.
    But then, so might the people who attack him.

  17. mmvc says:

    Jabba @ 12.44

    violently and horridly

    No one at The Remnant uses the ‘violently’ ‘horrid’ words you so often resort to. It’s a shame that someone as spiritually blessed as you claim to have been, is not able to exercise more charity – especially towards those you disagree with. This does not reflect well on you.

    Neither does the fact that you call good Catholics out for mortal sin and even purport to know what awaits them before the ‘Throne’. You claim to be ‘fully in love with God’ – a claim that I believe only the Blessed Virgin Mary could have made. Yet in Her humility, I doubt that Our Lady spoke of Her ‘full’ love for God, but rather lived it in a quiet and heroic way.

    There’s so much for us to learn from our heavenly Mother!

  18. JabbaPapa says:

    words

    Statements are not made squeaky clean simply by the avoidance of certain forms of vocabulary

    purport to know what awaits them before the ‘Throne’

    oh please — warning people of what we know from the Revelation is hardly blameworthy

    I doubt that Our Lady spoke of Her ‘full’ love for God, but rather lived it in a quiet and heroic way

    Saint Mary was hardly “quiet” at Fatima and Lourdes, nor toward her husband …

    As for “fully” you are attempting to read into it what has not been put there.

  19. JabbaPapa says:

    Here’s for those blameworthily accusing this Pope and his immediate predecessors of “heresy” : https://canonlawblog.wordpress.com/2016/12/16/a-canonical-primer-on-popes-and-heresy/

  20. JabbaPapa says:

    [Removed because of insulting language. Please try to keep your anger under control, at least here on CP&S.]

  21. JabbaPapa says:

    I mean … never mind that “lovely” Pope who decided that his election would consist of murdering his predecessor whilst he was physically seated on the Throne of Peter, eh ?

  22. johnhenrycn says:

    JabbaPapa (19:48) – I really sincerely admire your research skills. I haven’t (yet) read that Remnant article you’ve linked about the worst pope in history (apparently in reference to St Pope JP II), but as I said above (04:33) – “…not everything The Remnant says is true – nothing aside from the Bible and infallible doctrine is…”. Obviously, we now know that St JP II was not the worst pope in history. Hindsight and all, what? That newspaper, along with The Tablet, the Catholic Herald, the National Catholic Reporter, not to mention L’Osservatore Romano and other Catholic organs, do get things wrong – some much more so than others. My (and I believe Kathleen’s and MMVC’s) expressions of gratitude to the Matt family newspaper and website do not depend on their infallibility, but on their well deserved historical reputation for fierce loyalty to Holy Mother Church first and foremost, than to popes, as well as on their generally accurate reportage and commentary.

  23. johnhenrycn says:

    JP: You’re probably too young to remember, but The Tablet used to be a very orthodox newspaper, whereas the Catholic Herald‘s reputation was a progressive left wing one.

  24. Toad says:

    “…not everything The Remnant says is true – nothing aside from the Bible and infallible doctrine is…”
    The Bible “true”? All of it?
    I suppose we mean “symbolically” true.
    …Or whatever.

  25. johnhenrycn says:

    Every last word in the Bible is true (not excepting Protestant ones, which while true are incomplete) as I have said here ad nauseam before. I order you to not descend into juvenilely agnostic Pilatic queries such as: “What Is Truth?”. The truth is that Truth includes mythic truth. Before you die, please read the homosexual Thomas Mann’s Joseph and his Brothers wherein he perfectly explains why myth can be as true as historical facts.

  26. johnhenrycn says:

    …but since your shack in Spain probably only has room for one four foot long bookshelf crammed with John Grisham and Clive Cussler novels, start with Wikipedia:

    “A dominant topic of the novel is Mann’s exploration of the status of mythology and his presentation of the Late Bronze Age mindset with regard to mythical truths and the emergence of monotheism. Events of the story of Genesis are frequently associated and identified with other mythic topics. Central is the notion of underworld and the mythical descent to the underworld. Jacob’s sojourn in Mesopotamia (hiding from the wrath of Esau) is paralleled with Joseph’s life in Egypt (exiled by the jealousy of his brothers), and on a smaller scale his captivity in the well; they are further identified with the “hellraid” of Inanna-Ishtar-Demeter, the Mesopotamian Tammuz myth, the Jewish Babylonian captivity as well as the Harrowing of Hell of Jesus Christ.”

  27. JabbaPapa says:

    [Removed because]

    … attacking the Pope, OK. Attacking the so-called “Remnant“, not OK.

    Meanwhile it is easily seen that the so-called “Remnant” has been engaged in the same nonsensical anti-Pope campaigning for at least the last three Pontificates : http://jcrao.freeshell.org/WorstPontificate.html

  28. JabbaPapa says:

    … only has room for one four foot long bookshelf crammed with John Grisham and Clive Cussler novels

    /facepalm/

  29. Toad says:

    What’s a “bookshelf”?

  30. JabbaPapa says:

    [inappropriate word removed]

    oh, so the word “idiot” IS inappropriate after all ? Please then instruct jh of this latest development.

    [Nobody else on CP&S has repeatedly insulted a group of fellow Catholics by tagging this and similar offensive names to theirs in the way you have done. This will no longer be tolerated on our blog. Make your point without nasty name calling or go elsewhere.]

  31. JabbaPapa says:

    I’m not the one promoting the views of a group that publishes stuff like : “Still, the chief responsibility for bewilderment has to be laid firmly at the pontificate’s own doorstep. It is due, first and foremost, to Pope John Paul II’s personal enslavement to Enlightenment rhetoric. That rhetoric, as numerous nineteenth century Catholic thinkers (Louis Veuillot, Cardinal Pie, the editors of La Civiltŕ Cattolica, and the circle around Archbishop Ketteler of Mainz among them) cogently demonstrated, is the instrument of a monumental, thorough-going con game; one that precisely institutionalizes murkiness and contradiction as though it were the height of human wisdom.” (“Remnant” Aug. 31 2004) — and then just republishes it as is 12 years later, virtually identically, except for the substitution of some names for others.

  32. JabbaPapa says:

    These so-called “Remnant” have had an objectively blameworthy Pope-bashing agenda since their foundation, and I fail to see how it might be contrary to the Catholicity of the Faith to express strong disagreement with the ideology of that group and its publications.

  33. kathleen says:

    Lots to comment on in the above discussion and argument since yesterday morning, and I regret having been too occupied with family matters to have taken part. One thing that stood out for me was a remark of Jabba’s @ 12:35 :

    Saying that “this Pontificate must stop” is utterly uncatholic.

    No it is not!! There is absolutely nothing “uncatholic” in that statement at all if you love and care about the good of the Church on Earth. In fact, it is an entirely Catholic wish of millions of besieged Catholics, who are witnessing Holy Mother Church being placed on the chopping block of schism under Francis !!

    If we interpret the words “this Pontificate must stop” not as desiring the demise of the Holy Father himself, but as a heartfelt desire to see an end of his disastrous strategies and for so much that is wrong in the Church today, it is a wholly Catholic statement!

    Just to give a few examples: for an end of a papacy that refuses to reaffirm Church teaching (re the unanswered dubia); no more of this Pontificate’s attempt to divide the ‘flock’ between (so-called) “rigid” Catholics and (so-called) “merciful” Catholics; to finally close the door that has been opened wide for numerous heresies to slip in via AL (and other documents); for a stopper to be put on continuous snide attacks against faithful Catholics (including holy, orthodox priests and seminarians); for a flourishing of the Sacred Liturgy and TLM once more (initiated by Pope Benedict, Cardinal Sarah, etc., but scorned by Francis); for a kicking out if all those progressive, pro-homosexual, anti-traditional prelates Francis promotes, and a return of the orthodox cardinals he has dismissed; for an end of that worldly, secular agenda focused on the environment in detriment of saving souls for Heaven; a firm about-turn from embracing and hailing heretics of other creeds and religions; for a return to evangelisation of the Catholic Faith which Francis scorns; for an end to CONFUSION, ambiguity, banalities, mockery and insults (of true Catholics)… and (last but not least 😉 ) papal interviews on in-flight journeys!!

    And I’m sure to have left out in my hurry a dozen or more other entirely valid reasons why millions – yes, literally millions – of faithful Catholics today are longing for an end of this disastrous Pontificate!

  34. kathleen says:

    Jabba, JH has already wisely repeated twice that “… not everything The Remnant says is true – nothing aside from the Bible and infallible doctrine is…”, and I agree with JH, though certainly TR are admirable, faithful defenders of Catholicism.
    Though I personally certainly don’t go along with John R’s bashing of Pope Saint JP II in 2004. This holy Pope may have made a few blunders in his declining years due mostly to ill health*, but he was a great Pope, and brought a Church suffering terribly from the Modernistic “spirit” of the aftermath of V2, back on track again. I (and countless other Catholics) love him dearly and honour his memory.

    But let me point out that John Roa is not a member of The Remnant Team I believe, but only a friend and collaborator.

    * The same happened to the holy Franciscan, Fr Benedict Groeschell, a few times in his final years, prompting his retirement from his programme on EWTN.

  35. johnhenrycn says:

    Toad (05:57) asks: “What’s a bookshelf?”

    After consulting Roger and JabbaPapa, I can say this with confidence: “It’s a shelf on which books can be stored”
    …but, as usual, they are too succinct and they fail to tell us the whole story. In our cybernetic age, despite what you think, books are making a comeback. Reading a screen for long periods of time is hard on the eyes, especially for persons like you with those detached retina things or cataracts or glaucoma or whatever. Books are eye friendly. You can put one in your pocket, or throw it into the car and, unlike a laptop, it never requires being plugged in for a recharge. It never glitches or loses track of what it is conveying, and if you lose it, you can find another copy in bookstore or library.

    The very fact that Amazon has become a worldwide empire of millions of items with immediate access, proves my point. Books are on the way back. They can last for centuries. In fact, books, as a phenomenon, never went away. No doubt, there’s a place for electronic text in the modern world, but it does not replace books printed with care, with fine fonts and on lovely paper. Nor does electronic text replace the ubiquitous paperback, which may need re- backing after a few years, but never requires backing-up. Although, actually, I confess – whenever I read paperbacks, I tear out each page after reading it, because paperbacks do not deserve to be preserved.

    Where was I? Yes. Coming to the point, if you like books and use them often, you soon become a collector, and the worst problem with being one is finding a place to put your books. Traditional bookshelves as separate moveable pieces of furniture are much too expensive for poor people like you and Jabba, or for those of us who prefer to spend our money on books themselves. Built-in bookshelves are fine if you are able to afford the cost (which even I cannot) but they are usually heavy looking and, in any case, they would never suit the decor of your modest shack in Spain.

    But imagine this: shelves four foot wide on a plain white wall, Much more impressive are the ones in my study, twelve feet wide and six tiered. I’d post a picture, but I can’t get that length in focus, even if I knew how to use the digital camera I bought six years ago.

    I believe a bookshelf can be a part of the wall and as strong as the walls studs if properly designed. It can give a light and airy look to the room. Moreover it is inexpensive to build since it uses very little material. It will hold any weight of books; and if you like woodworking as a hobby, you can make it yourself at minimal cost. If not, you can have a Spanish carpenter, probably unemployed anyway, build it for you and his labour charge will be negligible. The main cost will be materials, but watch your Spanish carpenter closely, because Iberians can be a shifty lot.

    At this point you might well be asking yourself: “But what about a set of pantry shelves for Rebekah?” I will speak to that issue in my next comment. Please be patient.

  36. Toad says:

    Are you all right, JH? Are those receding Catholic gums of your troubling you again or is it perennial your insomnia?
    …Or have you simply been at the sauce again?
    Understandable, if so – what with the naughty popes and all.
    Whatever, I will light a candle for you tomorrow, in Santo Tomas, for your speedy recovery to what approximates, in your case, to mental health.
    And so should all on CP&S.

  37. kathleen says:

    JH @ 10:00

    😆

    JH, you are a hilarious, mischievous, incorrigible, tease!
    And I blame you for giving me a stitch in the side and sending the cat scampering from my laughing so much.

    Happy Advent… What’s left of it anyway. 😉

  38. JabbaPapa says:

    jh, your attempt to “mansplain” to toad, of all people, about the value of books is risible.

  39. mmvc says:

    JH @ 10:00
    Thanks for the chuckle. I bet you’ve put a smile on Toad’s face too. 🙂

    Oh and thank you for your kind words re my prayer request for my mum. God bless you!

  40. johnhenrycn says:

    JabbaPapa (06:05) says: “…oh, so the word “idiot” IS inappropriate after all ? Please then instruct jh of this latest development.”

    It’s funny you should say that, Jabba, because I was just thinking about how noble I’ve been to have never called you an “idiot” or a “moron”, despite receiving those same hurtful, hateful insults from your chubby fingers. Show me – link for me – any comment of mine that uses either of those invectives in relation to your goodself and (here we go again) I will contribute $100 to Our Lady Seat of Wisdom Academy in Barry’s Bay, Ontario before year end. Normally I only send them $20, so if you truly wish to support orthodoxy, show me where I have stooped so low as to call you either of those things.
    ___
    Whether you can or cannot, Jabba, I really do like you a lot 🙂

  41. JabbaPapa says:

    kathleen, it is uncatholic because it signifies a lack of communion with the Holy Father, and so it is by definition a schismatic intention.

    What would be catholic would be to pray that the Holy Father give good answers to these dubia, to pray and to strive for an end to the present crisis in the Church, and to keep in Faith, Hope, and Charity.

    certainly TR are admirable, faithful defenders of Catholicism

    Well I and others disagree, so no, there’s nothing “certain” about this highly dubious allegation.

    But let me point out that John Roa is not a member of The Remnant Team I believe, but only a friend and collaborator

    These so-called “Remnant” are nonetheless co-responsible and collaborators with the publication of these views — that they have BTW trotted out repeatdly during this Pontificate, the previous one, those of John Paul II, Paul VI, and even — I kid you not — the Pontificate of Pope John Paul I, who they also subjected to their scornful rhetoric.

  42. johnhenrycn says:

    Jabba (11:09) says- “— I kid you not — “

    Oh come on, Jappy, you have only linked on dubious article from The Remnant on which I complimented you (20:24) for your researching skills. Got anything else, or are you a one trick pony? Unlike you, I’m always open to persuasion when it comes to PF.

  43. johnhenrycn says:

    …one article from 12 years ago by an occasional contributor…

  44. JabbaPapa says:

    I once posted a link relative to the so-called “Remnant’” and Pope John Paul I — which was of course completely ignored. The gist of their comment on the new Pope was basically : “So the Conclave of Rome has elected a modernist liberal quasi-heretic to be Pope” … should sound familiar, given it’s the exact same line they’ve been pushing about every single Roman Pontiff since the 1960s …

  45. JabbaPapa says:

    …one article from 12 years ago by an occasional contributor…

    Well I do not OTOH compliment *you* on your “research skills”.

  46. kathleen says:

    Well, yes Jabba, I suppose one could always pray for a “Damascus-type” of conversion of Pope Francis – stranger things than this have taken place in the history of our Church!

    However, with PF’s current left-leaning, modernist, worldly, anti-traditional, stubborn mindset, praying for any other form of conversion to true Catholicism for him appears to be totally unrealistic, and no more than wishful thinking. All Francis’ words and actions, ever since he stepped out onto the balcony of St Peter’s Square as the new pope sans the Mozzetta and calling himself “the Bishop of Rome”, have been paving out a downward direction for our beloved Church. He has filled it with an influx of destructive Modernism, both with his own uncatholic babblings and scandalous actions, as well as promoting Kasperite-type heretics to further his aims.
    One cannot be “in communion” with a Pope who opposes what previous Popes have upheld and proclaimed as Church teaching!

    Yes, he, as Pope, Christ’s visible head of the Church’s unity for the Faithful in protecting Her sacred teachings on Faith and Morals, has failed miserably in his role.

    P.S. As a busy young thing, I don’t remember much about Pope John Paul I of the 33 days!

  47. johnhenrycn says:

    Toadspittle (10:21) says: “Are those receding Catholic gums of your troubling you…”

    You are stealing my shtick as you well know. I don’t mind. Fair use. But look: nothing I said at 10:00 should cause you anything less than mild amusement. If you choose to take it too personally, that’s up to you.

    A day or two ago, I told your one-time pilgrim house guest to pay more respect to his betters (me); but I can assure him and you that I only meant that ironically, perhaps sarcastically, but certainly not literally, even though he probably took it as such, which I knew he would because he’s slightly…oh never mind. Likewise, you’d better fine tune that hearing aid of yours for jests.

  48. johnhenrycn says:

    JabbaPapa (11:43) says – I once posted a link relative to the so-called “Remnant’” and Pope John Paul I — which was of course completely ignored.”
    Not saying you didn’t, but when was that? I didn’t see it – what with all your ridiculous verbosity, very few people read what you write. Post it again. If you can’t, I will still believe you, but that changes nothing. You allege two questionable articles by The Remnant over its one-half century of witness to our Faith. That’s a sad reflection on your objectivity, allegiance to fair play, truth and some other things too.

  49. JabbaPapa says:

    jh, you confuse the snide for the sarcastic.

  50. kathleen says:

    @ JH

    You might be interested to know that you and I, with our (er) boisterous comments, are cheering up no end the dismal existence of that miserable old geezer, Mr John Kehoe! 😆
    None of his hot-and-bothered, snide remarks make it through pre-moderation, but that doesn’t stop the poor bored man (totally addicted to all utterances made by his former CP&S adversaries) from giving us his daily pathetic diatribes. What a scream!

    Calm down, Mr Kehoe, you have your dear Kathleen praying for your conversion. Merry Christmas.

  51. JabbaPapa says:

    That’s a sad reflection on your objectivity, allegiance to fair play, truth and some other things too

    You have no idea what you’re talking about — besides, IF I were to post more detailed exposé of the so-called “Remnant” you’d just claim that it’s “too long”. /roll-eyes/

    In other words, your decision to disagree with me is prejudicious, given that you reject both examples of the blameworthy ill-will of that group towards the Roman Pontiffs, and any lengthier more detailed explanations of anything at all unless it happens to agree with your previous opinions ; not to mention the tedious personal obsessions towards certain individuals that you indulge yourself in.

    Of course, the recent five-part series of intense Pope-bashing that these so-called “Remnant” published this year is the worst example of schismatic rhetoric I’ve ever seen from that blameworthy group, based as it was almost exclusively on exaggeration, misinterpretations, and the uncritical repetition of outright lies.

  52. johnhenrycn says:

    Ah yes, dear Mr Kehoe. I posted a rather risqué YouTube a few days back about President Obama and his First Lady (so far as we know) going their second honeymoon, and I did so in the hope of seeing what reaction it would provoke from Mr Kehoe. I was interested, from a purely scientific point of view, whether mere words and pictures could cause someone to lose all intellectual function. I gather it can, because his response to me was blocked, but since it was blocked, I can’t be sure.

  53. johnhenrycn says:

    JabbaPapa (13:49) – Yes, you are long winded. Do you deny it? But no, I have not read your “examples of the blameworthy ill-will of that group towards the Roman Pontiffs…” – neither the one you’ve posted above, nor the one you say you posted previously (and which I accept you must have done) but which you can no longer link for our delectation. I suggest that you look in the mirror to see whether Michael Matt looks back at you. You are both intensely committed Catholics; but many people think that he is the real deal and that you are but a reflection. Sorry.

  54. Toad says:

    “I bet you’ve put a smile on Toad’s face too..””
    Absolutely right, Mmvc. JH is always such a “wag.” Has our Kathleen in “stitches,”

    “Nothing I said at 10:00 should cause you anything less than mild amusement.”
    Of course it didn’t, JH. Nothing you can say ever would. But I’m a trifle concerned about your apparent obsession with my wife, who frequently always asks me, “Why do you waste your few remaining years bickering with that gang of crackpots?” I tell her it’s my sacred mission, but she doesn’t get it. (or else maybe she’s right, and it’s me that doesn’t.)

  55. johnhenrycn says:

    Toad (15:02) says – “I’m a trifle concerned about your apparent obsession with my wife…”

    Oh dear. Is that the best you, an ex-hack, can do? Which wife would that be? I have never once said anything disrespectful about your wife #3. Never. Ever. My mere jocular typing of a name, which I never knew until you or Jabby mentioned it, causes you to think I’m a stalker? You fussed similarly, also falsely, about Jabby’s privacy when I recently posted his photo, which I found on your website – or on his website. How else would I have seen it? It’s not like I’m stalking him is it? Me stalking Jabbapapa?!?!?

    “Why do you waste your few remaining years bickering with that gang of crackpots?” says you – putting words in the mouth the person you say I must never ever name. “The last refuge of a scoundrel is hearsay” (Samuel Johnson – sort of). Is that what you choose to reduce yourself to, insulting everyone in sight – not just me – when you can’t think of any clever repartee ? Get out and go for walkies with your doggies, if they’re the only creatures you’re able to verbally spar with before you go completely senile. “Run Spot, run!” Sorry, Toad, I shouldn’t have mentioned the name of the leader of your pack. I solemnly promise to never stalk any of your curs.

  56. mmvc says:

    Nah Toad. Stick around. We all love you really.
    I genuinely think JH was just being a tease and meant no harm with his ‘bookshelf dissertation’. After all you did ask an unusual question, so what response did you expect? 😉

  57. johnhenrycn says:

    🙂 Actually, MMVC (17:16) the frog asking “What’s a bookshelf?” seemed to me to be an acute and self-effacing witticism. Okay, maybe not acute – a bookshelf too high for his sort – but I was sad when his comment (15:02) suggested that I was being cruel and too personal in my response, which I spent a lot of time on, most especially for his enjoyment. Funny, but I received a private e-mail a month or two ago from Simon Rafe (a Church Militant big shot) telling me to never make fun of his East End or Lancashire (I wasn’t sure) accent again. I did not respond because I’d previously thought he had a healthy personality . People with thin skins who scream with pain when scratched upset me, because I do not like causing hurt. I just thought Toad was made of stronger stuff and would come back at me with something amusing rather than peevish.

  58. JabbaPapa says:

    Yes, you are long winded. Do you deny it?

    Your personal obsession with blaming me personally for texts that are too lengthy or too complex for your own limits in comprehension is not my responsibility.

    I have no need to pander to any lowest common denominator.

  59. Toad says:

    “I have never once said anything disrespectful about your wife #3. Never. Ever.”
    Who ever suggested you said anything disrespectful about any of my wives, JH – incluidng Rebekah – who is number four.
    All I said was that you seem obsessed with her. Quite right too. I am myself. But that’s my job.

    When I get ‘peevish,” over anything by you, I will admit to being senile.

  60. JabbaPapa says:

    But I’m a trifle concerned about your apparent obsession with my wife, who frequently always asks me, “Why do you waste your few remaining years bickering with that gang of crackpots?” I tell her it’s my sacred mission, but she doesn’t get it. (or else maybe she’s right, and it’s me that doesn’t.)

    Dear toad, the internet trolling & cyber-stalking methods of that “jh” person are indeed extraordinarily offensive.

    I dearly hope to see you both again, at least once — I do hope anyway that neither of you consider me as among the “crackpots”, at least not in persona jabbae

  61. JabbaPapa says:

    I was interested, from a purely scientific point of view, whether mere words and pictures could cause someone to lose all intellectual function

    in other words you were being tediously pretentious

  62. JabbaPapa says:

    but many people think that he is the real deal and that you are but a reflection

    You are not “many people” — unlike you, I do not pretend to speak for any multitude.

  63. JabbaPapa says:

    causes you to think I’m a stalker?

    No.

    Your grossly objectionable violations of internet etiquette and respect for privacy leads one to think so.

  64. johnhenrycn says:

    …I should also mention that my bookshelf lecture was slightly plagiarised from a carpentry blog. When Toad asked “What’s a bookshelf?” I googled The Most Boring Article Ever About Bookshelves. Naturally, I made my answer to Toad a bit bespoke on both sides (I really do have a large book collection) but all in fun. “Sorry”, as we Canadians always say in grocery stores, and which has become a standard joke on the Group of 7 circuit as Canada’s unofficial motto.

  65. kathleen says:

    Wow, Toad, so this one you’re with right now is wife #4 ! Are you vying with Henry VIII to see if you can tot up more than him?
    Okay – please don’t get “peevish” with me; it was only a joke.
    But it’s no wonder you battle with Catholic teaching when you are clearly a defender of divorce.
    (And not of chopping off heads of the poor ex-wives, I hope?)

    Jabba,
    I don’t think JH is a troll, though he does love to stir up “the pot” to make mischief. Go on, tease him back – he can take it – but I’m always rather sorry when I see an interesting discussion go haywire when you boys start throwing your toys out of the pram… or at each other. 😉

  66. JabbaPapa says:

    hrm ..

    my wife, who frequently always asks me, “Why do you waste your few remaining years bickering with that gang of crackpots?”

    and to be perfectly frank, dear toad, I’m starting to ask myself the same question as your lovely wife

  67. JabbaPapa says:

    but all in fun

    No it wasn’t.

  68. JabbaPapa says:

    Jabba,
    I don’t think JH is a troll

    His entire activity in here involves creating interpersonal conflict — which is the very definition of an internet troll.

    And like dear Bekkah, I’m seriously wondering how spending time in here could be justified.

  69. johnhenrycn says:

    Toad (18:52) says- “Rebekah – who is number four.”

    Oh heck, here I was thinking there was a time in your life when you were celibate, if not chaste. Or should that be chaste, if not celibate? Let’s ask Jabba!

  70. JabbaPapa says:

    (or encouraging it)

  71. JabbaPapa says:

    Let’s ask Jabba!

    Case in point.

  72. JabbaPapa says:

    It’s “Phil”.

  73. JabbaPapa says:

    Sancte Michael Archangele,
    defende nos in proelio,
    contra nequitiam
    et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.
    Imperet illi Deus,
    supplices deprecamur:
    tuque,
    Princeps militiae caelestis,
    Satanam aliosque spiritus malignos,
    qui ad perditionem animarum
    pervagantur in mundo,
    divina virtute,
    in infernum detrude.
    Amen.

  74. johnhenrycn says:

    JabbaPapa (18:57) says – “I dearly hope to see you both again, at least once — I do hope anyway that neither of you consider me as among the “crackpots”, at least not in persona jabbae …
    https://www.powerthesaurus.org/lickspittle
    You say that trolling
    “involves creating interpersonal conflict – which is the very definition of an internet troll”. You are the very model of a modern Major General, Jabba – and yes “creating interpersonal conflict” is *A* sign of a troll. But unlike you, I have never changed my name or avatar, nor have I ever said anything contrary to the ethos of this blog. Yes, I do make fun of you and of your occasional frequent road trips down the Pretentiousness Turnpike, but that does not make me a troll. You are just so easy to make fun of. Thank you 🙂

  75. johnhenrycn says:

    “Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio…”

    Jabba (19:39) – is that Latin? You are amazing. I paid good money to have that intercessory prayer printed for me in English and then covered with a plastic overlay to last me forever. What I fool I was when I could have asked my printer (a Muslim) to do it in Latin.

  76. JabbaPapa says:

    nor have I ever said anything contrary to the ethos of this blog

    The “ethos of this blog” is the Catholicity of the Christian Faith.

    Or at least it should be.

    Your extraordinarily objectionable trolling and recent cyberstalking isn’t.

  77. JabbaPapa says:

    is that Latin? You are amazing. I paid good money to have that intercessory prayer printed for me in English and then covered with a plastic overlay to last me forever. What I fool I was when I could have asked my printer (a Muslim) to do it in Latin.

    A sneering attitude against the Prayer to Saint Michael that speaks volumes.

  78. mmvc says:

    His entire activity in here involves creating interpersonal conflict — which is the very definition of an internet troll.

    Rubbish. JH has made plenty of excellent serious and lighthearted contributions to CP&S over the years. How could a classic such as the one @ 20:16 not make you smile? 🙂

    And like dear Bekkah, I’m seriously wondering how spending time in here could be justified.

    Plenty of fish in the sea… blogs on the web… for you to move on to if you wish, dear Jabba.
    Though you’ll have to be much more guarded if you become a regular in some places. Such as chez Fr Z.

    Might do you a world of good! 😉

  79. JabbaPapa says:

    Though you’ll have to be much more guarded if you become a regular in some places

    Some places do not flirt so much with the promotion of schismatic opinions.

  80. mmvc says:

    It’s “Phil”.

    Another cryptic Jabba-ism.

    Don’t bother explaining.

  81. mmvc says:

    Some places do not flirt so much with the promotion of schismatic opinions.

    If that’s what you think, then go take your pick.

    Bonne chance et adieu, mon cher! 😉

  82. johnhenrycn says:

    “Such as chez Fr Z”

    Yes indeed. I’ve never read Jabba on Fr Z ( I rarely go there), but knowing what Jabba is like, I suspect he displays more of his milquetoast side over there. Personally, I don’t comment on blogs where I cannot be completely forthright. Tried to once on The Grauniad some years ago.

  83. JabbaPapa says:

    I will NEVER promote anything other than the Orthodoxy of the Catholic Faith — this does not include agreement with the idiotic pretensions of sundry nor editorial contributing authors to the so-called “Remnant“.

    I have been accused of “anger” — as if my primary reaction to the sad degradation of this blog in recent months were “emotional”. Emotionally, I feel only sadness and frustration.

    Catholicism Pure & Simple is not divisive nor vindictive, but Universal, Loving, and Forgiving — and Orthodox rather than Puritanical, Faithful rather than Jealous, Hopeful rather than Snide, Giving rather than Demanding.

    It does not substitute ideology for Christianity.

  84. JabbaPapa says:

    Bonne chance et adieu, mon cher

    his milquetoast side

    Dearest kathleen, please flee this place as BB has and the Rabit has and I must.

    Good luck with the troll & cyberstalker “jh”.

  85. johnhenrycn says:

    Jabba (20:22) says that I have a “…sneering attitude against the Prayer to Saint Michael…” just because I asked my printer to prepare it for me in English and to then protect it for me in plastic? My archdiocese (not my diocese) cathedral is St Michael, and it’s from that cathedral’s Sunday bulletin a few years ago that I took an image of St Michael. I had a high resolution copy made on the obverse with the Prayer to Saint Michael on the reverse printed in English and then had my printer plasticize it . How does that amount to a sneer?

    But please do not leave, JabbaPapa. You know more about Catholicism than I do. Maybe.

  86. mmvc says:

    Jabba @ 21:00

    Bonne chance et adieu, mon cher

    You left this out: 😉

  87. Toad says:

    ‘Wow, Toad, so this one you’re with right now is wife #4 ! Are you vying with Henry VIII to see if you can tot up more than him?”
    No, Kathleen – nothing so sordid – more like vying with Micky Rooney.

    “But it’s no wonder you battle with Catholic teaching when you are clearly a defender of divorce.
    (And not chopping off heads of the poor ex-wives, I hope?)”

    My so-called “battle,” (which is actually more of a lover’s tiff) with Catholicism is about far more important issues.
    You may well not believe it, but I’m no more a defender of divorce than I am of lying, scuba diving, drinking “Coke,” or writing scurrilous diatribes about the current pope/.
    …t’s just something people find themselves doing, from time to time.
    Disgraceful, certainly – but there we are.
    Oddly enough, all my ex-wives are very fond of me – much more so than when they were actually “married,” to me.
    Christmas is costly, though.

    Wonderfully funny – indeed vintage – exchanges today; mainly thanks to the side-splitting JH.
    And Toad to bed.

  88. John says:

    [The Moderator – John Kehoe, you have attempted to post at least a dozen comments on this site, all of which are decidedly personally critical of one of the other commentators on this site and are couched in the type of unchristian, pharasaical language that you claim to decry. And still you wonder why we decline to publish your comments. Critical self-reflexion on your part is required. Unless you change the tenor and content of your posts they will not be published.]

  89. johnhenrycn says:

    I miss John Kehoe. I really do. I think about him in my dreams. Yes I do. There was once a sockpuppet – related to Brother Burrito I believe – who I used to laugh about in my dreams. I never laugh when I think of John Kehoe, but I do think about him.

  90. mmvc says:

    JH, I fear that Kathleen really would flee if JK were reinstated. And who could blame her?
    Stuff of nightmares!

  91. johnhenrycn says:

    “Good luck with the troll & cyberstalker “jh” says JabbaPapa somewhere above, giving vent to his hysterical side. Unlike John Kehoe, I’ve never dreamed about JabbaPapa. I hope JP is just going on a sabbatical and will return, thinner and fully shaven. He really needs a holiday. I can never argue with him because he won’t accept opposing points of view. He calls me an “idiot” (sob) and a “moron” (sob), but maybe his attitude will change when he returns. Happy holidays, JP.

  92. Tom Fisher says:

    Jabba @ December 16, 2016 at 13:05

    You misunderstand me, which is my fault for saying something so easily misunderstood. The possibility of doubt is intrinsic to the concept of faith. Acknowledging the potential for doubt within oneself is not unbelief. Faith without the possibility of doubt would not be faith. No more for now, you appear to be in a somewhat agitated state.

  93. Tom Fisher says:

    your intrinsic disbelief will not be forgotten when you find yourself before the Throne.

    Jabba, I can assure you that I have prayed about past doubt while full of faith — and at other times I have prayed for faith while full of doubt.

    If you have been granted the visionary knowledge normally reserved for the saints — why, why are you so relentlessly angry and aggressive?

  94. Tom Fisher says:

    PS, this experience I just mentioned:

    I have prayed about past doubt while full of faith — and at other times I have prayed for faith while full of doubt

    is not as uncommon as you may think (however much you may be beyond it), and it is an experience that far more worthy people than I have had.

  95. kathleen says:

    Oh dear, what have I woken up to find on CP&S this rainy morning? Lots of misunderstandings last night, a bun fight that turned decidedly sour, old friends announcing their departure…. and Mr Kehoe reprimanded by the Moderator but firmly stuck in the ‘naughty corner’. All very sad (except for the last bit of news) and makes me wish I could go back to sleep. 😥

    Dearest kathleen, please flee this place as BB has and the Rabit has and I must.

    Jabba, please, PLEASE don’t go. You have been a loyal and most helpful contributor to CP&S since our earliest days, and things wouldn’t be the same without you. Even though I’ve often disagreed with you (more so under this current Pontificate than formerly) and we have had lengthy arguments, I value your opinions and have gained a lot from your impressive scholarship. You have helped many people with their questions or misunderstandings on varied Catholic matters, as I’m sure you know. Don’t turn from helping future fellow ‘pilgrims’ seeking Truth.

    If I may give you one bit of advice re your squabbles with JH, it would be this: don’t take to heart JH’s so-called “trolling”! Pull out your sense of humour which I know you have somewhere, and give the old rascal a taste of his own medicine. He is truly not your enemy, you know! (Perhaps we on the sidelines are more aware of that than you.)

    P.S. We are hoping our beloved BB will return one day, sooner rather than later. He has had some problems to sort out. Rabit, OTOH, never was a regular commenter on CP&S, and it was Toad’s contributions that finally did it (somehow) for him.

  96. Toad says:

    Well, Mr. or Mrs. “Moderator,” I hope you didn’t kill any comment by Mr. Kehoe that was “personally critical” of me.
    It is by such kindly criticism that we perfect ourselves. (It says here.)
    I’m glad to see there is never any suggestion of censoring JH”s bizarre, ‘stitch-provoking,’ ramblings,
    Nor should there be.
    But why pick on anyone? Let free speech speak fteely!

    …Look in at The Peaceable any time, Jabba.

  97. kathleen says:

    Tom to Jabba @ 06:33

    “I have prayed about past doubt while full of faith — and at other times I have prayed for faith while full of doubt”….. is not as uncommon as you may think (however much you may be beyond it), and it is an experience that far more worthy people than I have had.

    A very interesting and truthful statement!
    It is surely something most deserving of God’s immense love and grace when a soul, earnestly seeking Him and remaining faithful to His Divine Law, whilst stumbling through agonising doubts immersed in the darkness of emptiness, does not give in to his doubts. This soul will gain great merit if he/she sticks in there, and will be justly rewarded one day when their darkness of faith turns into the brilliant light of certitude.

  98. mmvc says:

    “I have prayed about past doubt while full of faith — and at other times I have prayed for faith while full of doubt”

    For nearly 50 years, Mother Teresa endured what the church calls a “dark night of the soul” — a period of spiritual doubt, despair and loneliness that many of the great mystics experienced, her namesake St. Therese of Lisieux included. In Mother Teresa’s case, the dark night lasted most of her adult life — an almost unheard of trial.

    From this article: http://bigstory.ap.org/article/eb58c9fae2ae441abc040d6f205b3197/mother-teresa-saint-despite-spiritual-darkness

  99. Tom Fisher says:

    Kathleen @ 07:31

    A wonderful message, and beautifully expressed

  100. Toad says:

    “….a soul, earnestly seeking Him and remaining faithful to His Divine Law, whilst stumbling through agonising doubts immersed in the darkness of emptiness, does not give in to his doubts. “
    In other words, if one has doubts about God – it’s best to ignore them – Is that it?
    We don’t “give in” to doubts. We either accept – or reject – the outcome of our ponderings regarding them. Which is not the same.
    And it’s difficult to remain faithful to “Divine Laws.” when one has doubts regarding the existence, let alone the motives, of a Divine Lawgiver.

    [Moderator: This part of your comment has been removed. We’ve moved on. The bun fight is over. Leave it be.]

  101. Toad says:

    [Please move on Toad.]

  102. Tom Fisher says:

    [Moderator: Tom. Please stop posting comments in this format, people will think that it is the moderator talking]

  103. Toad says:

    So be it.

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