Chief exorcist Father Amorth: Padre Pio said that the third secret of Fatima was about a “false church” in the end times

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In a recent article on the “Secret of Fatima”, Steve Skojec, the founder and editor of OnePeterFive, published for the first time in the English language words from Rome’s chief exorcist, Father Gabriele Amorth (d. 2016), about Padre Pio and his knowledge of the Third Secret of Fatima. They come from a newly published book written by José María Zavala, entitled The Best Kept Secret of Fatima (El Sécreto Mejor Guardado de Fátima). Zavala interviewed Father Amorth in 2011, and was instructed to keep the interview secret until after the exorcist’s death.

Fr. Amorth personally knew Saint (Padre) Pio for 26 years, and it is from this towering figure of 20th century Catholic sanctity that he claims to have learned the contents of the Third Secret of Fatima. According to Fr. Amorth, Padre Pio said that the Third Secret pertained to the infiltration of the Vatican by Satan and the rise of a “false church” – details that are not found in the Vatican’s official publication of the Third Secret in 2000. Below we publish details of the interview with Fr. Amorth:

In the interview, Fr. Amorth relates — as he has done elsewhere — that he does not believe the consecration of the world by Pope John Paul II in 1984 was sufficient to satisfy the requirements set forth by Our Lady.

“There was no such consecration then,” he [Father Amorth] says. “I witnessed the act. I was in St. Peter’s Square that Sunday afternoon, very close to the Pope; so close, I could almost touch him.”

Pressed by Zavala as to why he so forcefully believes that the consecration was not done, Fr. Amorth replied: “Very simple: John Paul II wanted to mention Russia expressly, but in the end he did not.”

Fr. Amorth said further: “I have no doubt that the consecration did not occur on the terms required by the Virgin. But we must not lose sight of what she herself wanted to tell us through Lucia: ‘In the end My Immaculate Heart will triumph.’”

Zavala then asked about the Third Secret:  “Forgive me for insisting on the Third Secret of Fatima: Did Padre Pio relate it, then, to the loss of faith within the Church?”

Fr. Gabriele furrows his brow and sticks out his chin. He seems very affected.

“Indeed,” he states, “One day Padre Pio said to me very sorrowfully: ‘You know, Gabriele? It is Satan who has been introduced into the bosom of the Church and within a very short time will come to rule a false Church.’”

“Oh my God! Some kind of Antichrist! When did he prophesy this to you?” I [Zavala] ask.

“It must have been about 1960, since I was already a priest then.”

“Was that why John XXIII had such a panic about publishing the Third Secret of Fatima, so that the people wouldn’t think that he was the anti-pope or whatever it was …?”

A slight but knowing smile curls the lips of Father Amorth.

“Did Padre Pio say anything else to you about future catastrophes: earthquakes, floods, wars, epidemics, hunger …? Did he allude to the same plagues prophesied in the Holy Scriptures?” [asks Mr. Zavala]

“Nothing of the sort mattered to him, however terrifying they proved to be, except for the great apostasy within the Church. This was the issue that really tormented him and for which he prayed and offered a great part of his suffering, crucified out of love.” [says Fr. Amorth]

“The Third Secret of Fatima?”

“Exactly.”

“Is there any way to avoid something so terrible, Fr. Gabriele?”

“There is hope, but it’s useless if it’s not accompanied by works. Let us begin by consecrating Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, let us recite the Holy Rosary, let us all do prayer and penance …”∎

by Maike Hickson, http://www.onepeterfive.com 

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71 Responses to Chief exorcist Father Amorth: Padre Pio said that the third secret of Fatima was about a “false church” in the end times

  1. John says:

    Well it will be easy to check whether this Chinese whispers hearsay about the late Fr Amorth’s alleged recollection of another person’s comments has any foundation. I am pretty sure that St John Paul II released the third secret and it is published on the Vatican website.

  2. Apparent papal approval of unrepentant adulterers and sodomites receiving communion? Seeming Church tolerance of abortion and contraception? Drug fuelled gay orgies led by a Vatican official? Homosexualist James Martin, S.J., as a Vatican communications adviser? Bergoglio embracing a notorious abortionist, and showing approval of a gay couple and a transgender “marriage”?

    Whether or not Padre Pio actually said what this article alleges, many people might be tempted to think that a “false church” has in fact now come into existence.

  3. Robert: if it looks like a dog, smells like a dog, barks like a dog, it ain’t no cat. Your brief summary clearly defines the state of Mother Church today. And, it’s irrelevant whether that bloke or this one spilled the beans on what was/is to come, and no one is obliged to believe any private revelation; but, their sentiments (for want of a better description) are now a reality. That makes them one hell of a good detective, and is more than enough to convince me of their accuracy. The proof is in the eating, not the pudding.

  4. JabbaPapa says:

    I really do wish that these divisive and destructive conspiracy theory stories would end …

    Fr. Amorth said further: “I have no doubt that the consecration did not occur on the terms required by the Virgin.”

    hmmmmm, who shall I listen to ? This exorcist, 1PeterFive, Rorate, the so-called “remnant” … or, Fatima in Lucia’s own words (p. 204) : Sister Lucia personally confirmed that this solemn and universal act of consecration corresponded to what Our Lady wished (“Sim, está feita, tal como Nossa Senhora a pediu, desde o dia 25 de Março de 1984”: “Yes it has been done just as Our Lady asked, on 25 March 1984”: Letter of 8 November 1989). Hence any further discussion or request is without basis. ?

    Who do you think I’ll jolly well listen to ?

  5. GC says:

    Neville Whitely: The proof is in the eating, not the pudding.

    The wisdom of the desert dessert?

  6. toadspittle says:

    I think Neville means people are over-egging the lily here.

  7. kathleen says:

    There is much evidence pointing to the fact that a large part of the Third Secret of Fatima has never been published. Fr Malachi Martin, close collaborator of many popes, and an exorcist too, who never lived to witness the public announcement of the Third Secret (although he had read and knew it himself) has given plenty of hints in interviews and talks that it has indeed something to do with a great apostasy within the Church of our times. And he is not alone among those who have read the Third Secret and given like warnings.

    However, I really don’t know how this explains Pope Benedict XVI’s insistence that there is nothing further to the secret! I do not believe he would lie about it.
    But could it possibly be (as others have conjectured) that he does not know about it? After all, It has often been reported that the Third Secret was divided into two parts and – long story cut short – was placed into two different envelopes. There are many enemies infiltrated into the Vatican these days – this is no secret – who would not want this incriminating evidence coming to light!!

    Besides this controversial Third Secret of Fatima, there are other abundant pointers from saints, mystics, and even words from Blessed Virgin Mary at renown apparition sites (ancient and new) that talk of this slow infiltration of Satan and his minions into the Holy Bride of Christ from the start of the twentieth century!!

    And is not the reality we are living, with the vast amount of flagrant betrayals, falsehoods and evil being spouted by many high-ranking clerics these days proof enough that Satan is today “walking the corridors of the Vatican”??

  8. toadspittle says:

    Toad will be content to wait and see what Dan Brown says.

  9. JabbaPapa says:

    There is much evidence pointing to the fact that a large part of the Third Secret of Fatima has never been published

    No there jolly well isn’t, there are some mutually supporting claims by people believing in this conspiracy — and as for Fr Malachi Martin, despite his undeniable personal and priestly qualities, I’d trust his more “exciting” claims about this or that just about as far as I could throw them.

    that it has indeed something to do with a great apostasy within the Church of our times

    I am flabbergasted by some people’s outright refusal to realise that this is, very simply, a valid interpretation of the contents of the third secret as we know it, since its publication. These conspiracists, generally, refuse to accept that a personal interpretation of the meaning of the secret is unlikely to be a simple paraphrase or description of its literal content ; one of the many reasons BTW why private revelations have only very exceptionally been recognised as clear expressions of a Church teaching, as none of the secrets of Fatima have been BTW, though Our Lady of Lourde’s Que soy era Immaculada Concepciou has been — this teaching from Lourdes cannot be misinterpreted, but all three secrets of Fatima basically require you to give them a personal interpretation, and so will require you to include elements into your interpretation from outside the texts themselves.

    These awful conspiracy theories undermine people’s trust in the Church, in the Popes, in the secrets of Fatima, in the seers of Fatima, in the Holy See and in its Cardinals and Prefects, and etc etc, as they could only possibly be correct if everyone involved, including the actual seer herself, has engaged in deliberate lying to the Faithful ; believe that, and you’re on a slippery slope away from the Catholicity as such.

    there are other abundant pointers from saints, mystics, and even words from Blessed Virgin Mary at renown apparition sites (ancient and new) that talk of this slow infiltration of Satan and his minions into the Holy Bride of Christ from the start of the twentieth century

    Which is exactly why interpretations of the third secret as a confirmation of these warnings are entirely valid, except when you misuse these interpretations to undermine the secret itself.

  10. toadspittle says:

    Isn’t it something to do with the height of The Great Pyramid?
    Rogbert would know.
    …But he’s probably dead.

  11. Thank you for posting this. It helps.

  12. Bishop Sheen also said this in 1948 “satan will set up a counter church”

  13. kathleen says:

    Jabba @ 03:57 on August 3rd…

    OK, Jabba – now I think you should calm down with a nice cup of tea after this spluttering outburst in the small hours of yesterday.

    Your comment is no more than your opinion of information received (as mine was), however much you like to believe that “evidence” is only evidence when you pronounce it.

    These awful conspiracy theories undermine people’s trust in the Church, in the Popes, in the secrets of Fatima, in the seers of Fatima, in the Holy See and in its Cardinals and Prefects, and etc etc, as they could only possibly be correct if everyone involved, including the actual seer herself, has engaged in deliberate lying to the Faithful ; believe that, and you’re on a slippery slope away from the Catholicity as such.

    I suppose you’re saying those things to me? How judgmental and uncharitable!

    Besides, you are twisting things as usual. The “actual seer” at Fatima, Sister Lucia, could not have known how those in the Vatican, who had access to the Third Secret she had written down on more than one occasion and put in their hands, would handle her work after she had died!

    —–

    Sigh… What ever happened to the old good, kind Jabba we once knew, always ready to patiently help, share and inform others on Catholic matters? Never throwing his weight around or insulting those he disagreed with.

    Gone with the wind long ago it would appear.

  14. toadspittle says:

    “I suppose you’re saying those things to me?”
    Why should you suppose that, Kathleen?

    “…however much you like to believe that “evidence” is only evidence when you pronounce it.”
    Evidence is only ever just that – evidence – no matter who pronounces it. Never truth.
    But, most often it’s all we’ve got. And there’s usually not enough of it.
    Invariably not – regarding metaphysical matters.

  15. JabbaPapa says:

    I suppose you’re saying those things to me?

    Certainly not — if I had been, there’d be zero doubt that this were the case. And this is quite ironic, as my principle issue on the “hidden third secret” front is with those reading more into what is said than is to be found there.

    spluttering outburst

    tum-te-tum …

    The “actual seer”

    Ah yes, the “fake Lucia” story — hogwash, frankly

    after she had died

    The third secret was publicly revealed in 2000 ; Lucia passed away in 2005. How is 2000 “after” 2005 ?

    What ever happened to the old good, kind Jabba we once knew, always ready to patiently help, share and inform others on Catholic matters?

    He’s saddened by the notion that he wishes to insult his fellow Catholics.

  16. Roger says:

    Haven’t been here for some time.

    October 1917 Fatima – the Balfour declaration – Russiian Atheist Solialist Revolution – upset the Portugese Masons!
    October 1517 Luther starts Reformation – Luther described as the father of Modern Science
    1717 Masonry in its Mother country England .

    The secret of Fatima ?
    Pope John Paul II, at the Eucharistic Congress in Philadelphia in 1976, when he was not yet Pope — he was still Cardinal Wojtyla — he spoke about that chastisement, that which is the substance of the Third Secret of Fatima. And he said that the Church must undergo a great trial, it will be the struggle between the Church and the anti-Church; the Gospel and the anti-Gospel.

    And shortly after he was elected Pope in 1981, he returned to that same theme, and this time he spoke explicitly of this being the substance of the Message of Fatima, the Secret of Fatima. And he reiterated that the Church must soon undergo great trials.

  17. toadspittle says:

    A warm welcome back, Roger. Time off for good behaviour?
    October 1917 -Fatima
    October 1517 – Luther
    October (no? Well, never mind) 1717 – Masons!

    Can’t wait for October 2017 – it will be a hoot!

  18. Roger says:

    Hello Toad we live by Faith.
    Faith is the belief in things seen and unseen.
    Rationalism and Naturalism isn’t Faith but has developed out of the enlightenment itself from the Reformation.
    At Fatima three children opposed the rationalism and modernism of the Portguese masons and their Republic.
    Masonry has been termed visible darkness (three days of darkness) . So am I surprised by the confusion and contradictions from a Masonic Curia? Its pretty obvious that a Masonic Curia wouldn’t want to offend their Portguese Brothers now would they?
    I recommend more prayer less discusion and considerably less materialism.
    Bye All

  19. The Raven says:

    I’m with Jabba on this one. Whenever Fatima gets mentioned normally good natured, intelligent people dump their critical faculties and charity at the door.

    As she was one of only a vanishingly small number of people who knew what the Third Secret was, I think that we can believe Lucia when she tells us that it has been revealed and properly acted upon.

    If somebody says that the Third Secret says something that is *not* already revealed in the Deposit of Faith, then I’m sorry, but I’m not going to give it any credence.

    And how lovely to see Roger again. I can’t say that I’ve ever heard Luther described as the “father of modern science” before – I’ve never even come across a Protestant who’d make that very odd claim (that title is usually awarded to Roger Bacon, a Catholic Religious) or Francis Bacon (a lawyer and essayist, albesit, sadly, a heretic).

    And would it be churlish of me to point out that the so-called “Enlightenment” began in Catholic France?

    And come to that, there is a nasty tang of “Enlightenment” obfuscation about the whole Third Secret conspiracy theory thing.

    We need a bit of perspective: we have a lousy Pope, but there have been far worse; the Vatican is a chaotic mess, what do you expect? It’s in Italy (sorry Italy); our bishops are hopeless, hardly the first time; and James Martin SJ (no more comment needed).

    Things aren’t great, but they have been far worse before. If we believe Our Lord’s promise, we should know full well that the gates of Hell will not prevail against His Church.

    We just need to proclaim His Word ourselves and pray for vocations. Time will change, nothing is permanent, these times too shall pass.

  20. Roger says:

    The Third secret IS in the Deposit of the Faith.

    May 13, 2000, Pope John Paul II said that the Third Secret is in Chapter 12, verses 1, 3 and 4 of the Apocalypse.

    Apocalypse Chapter 12 – The vision of the woman clothed with the sun and of the great dragon her persecutor.

    [1] And a great sign appeared in heaven: A woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars:

    [3] And there was seen another sign in heaven: and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads, and ten horns: and on his head seven diadems:
    [4] And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to be delivered; that, when she should be delivered, he might devour her son.

  21. johnhenrycn says:

    Didn’t *greatgrandmother* above used to be a mere grandmother on CP&S? If so, my congratulations on a well-deserved promotion. I hope to eventually qualify for that title, mutatis mutandis.
    ___
    I’m surprised that, on this thread discussing Rome’s former chief exorcist, Fr Gabriele Amorth (RIP) there’s been no mention of the unfortunately named Fr Chad Ripperger (not to be confused with the phonetically similar 19th C. London criminal) who’s got a big following amongst Catholics interested in the subject; but I may have been misled by the “Chief exorcist” headline above as to the thrust of this thread. If so, please forgive me. I was directed to Ripperger last week; and while I’ve not actually read anything by him yet, he has some enthusiastic recommendations on another popular Catholic website, and I thought some people here might be interested in checking him out.

  22. JabbaPapa says:

    The Third secret IS in the Deposit of the Faith

    No it isn’t. http://www.catholicfaithandreason.org/the-deposit-of-faith-and-the-holy-spirit-of-god.html

    Deposit of Faith = Apostolic Tradition (or Sacred Oral Tradition) + Sacred Scriptures

    It includes no private revelations whatsoever.

  23. toadspittle says:

    “Enlightenment obfuscation “
    Brilliant Raven – Oxymoron Of The Year so far. And agreed about Roger. With his welcome comeback – we are back enjoying numerology, Fatimania, The Great Pyramid, and seven-headed dragons. All good fun stuff!

    (A thought: Could our Rog actually be Dan Brown?)

    “Whenever Fatima gets mentioned normally good natured, intelligent people dump their critical faculties and charity at the door.”
    Very true. I suggest they do that with practically anything “religious.”

  24. The Raven says:

    Why do you think that I put “Enlightenment” into inverted commas, Toad. It was a great bit of advertising to call it that, but that doesn’t make it a true description of the intellectual movement!

  25. johnhenrycn says:

    Exactly (The Raven) although I’ve never actually figured out how to do inverted commas. I may do without knowing. Which reminds me: why have I not seen Ginnyfree in a Melungeon’s age:

  26. johnhenrycn says:

    Back in Tennessee, this indie piece is called. Sorry you can’t enjoy it; but go You Tubing for “Adam and I”, a good couple of Catholic (I think) songsters.

  27. johnhenrycn says:

    Okay. Enough fooling around. Here’s my ethnic vote for the best Children’s Choir. Please, no Agnus Dei by some nameless group of boys in Cambridge:

  28. kathleen says:

    Jabba @ 17:15 on August 4th…

    Me: “I suppose you’re saying those things to me?”

    You: “Certainly not”

    OK – thank you.
    But mistakenly thinking you are addressing the same person you were replying to in the previous paragraph is something that has frequently happened here before with your comments, Jabba. And not only with me. Please make it a bit clearer next time who or whom you are addressing so that we avoid further confusion.

    And no – I wasn’t referring to the “fake Lucia” story at all (although I have heard about it, and find it a pretty infeasible idea actually), but I was quoting your own words, i.e., “actual seer”, that you had used for Sister Lucia to respond to you.
    But yes, you’re right… I see I got the dates mixed up for the publication of the Third Secret and Sister Lucia’s death five years later. Sorry.

    Even when you (or others) deny any possibility of obfuscation on the revelation of the fullness of the Third Secret of Fatima, it does not take away from the fact that there is a pretty strong argument from many upstanding Catholics who see a cover-up from the many enemies of the Faith (some of them extremely powerful) who have infiltrated and infested the Church with their Marxist, Masonic, homosexual mindsets. These enemies of Christ would not want their “cover” to be blown!
    Admittedly, I am no expert; I have no inside, hidden knowledge of whether this is so, or not. I can only look at the information available to all of us. And yet, taking a wholly objective stance on these conflicting positions, I believe that they could be right. Time will tell.

    The Devil is a very wily, cunning and calculating customer, “a liar from the beginning”.

  29. JabbaPapa says:

    Please make it a bit clearer next time who or whom you are addressing

    Third persons, unless I specifically and deliberately state otherwise, if that’s any help …

    a pretty strong argument from many upstanding Catholics who see a cover-up from the many enemies of the Faith (some of them extremely powerful) who have infiltrated and infested the Church with their Marxist, Masonic, homosexual mindsets

    Then please do not contribute to this agenda by supporting anti-catholic conspiracy theories.

    The Devil is a very wily, cunning and calculating customer, “a liar from the beginning”

    This is true — but he is also quite drastically pathetic, weak, and stubbornly wrong.

  30. toadspittle says:

    “This is true — but he is also quite drastically pathetic, weak, and stubbornly wrong.”
    Whatever the Devil is, he’s the excactly way God made him, and behaves exactly the way God knew he would. Or so we are told. So, ultimately, whose fault is it all?

  31. Roger says:

    Seems the Deposit of the Faith DOESN’T INCLUDE THE APOCALPYSE.
    The Protestants use the term Scriptures. A neat way to exclude the Bible other than the Gospels.

    I repeat JP II Apoc 12
    Also Lucia The Gospels plus Apoc chapter 8

    We have it seems added to the deposit of the Faith!

    New Dogmas, primarily that of Evolution, which presupposes Gnostic Pantheism and Integral Humanism, for the passage of the mission of the Church from the mystical and sacramental (supernatural) sphere to the political-social (natural) one;

    I believe that Evolution is a Private Revelation is it NOT!

  32. toadspittle says:

    “I believe that Evolution is a Private Revelation is it NOT!”
    No Roger, it’s a biogological theory, based on sound evidence, which, so far, has not been falsified.
    I don’t think it ever will be. But I don’t know.
    If it ever is, I will stop believing in it.

  33. Roger says:

    Toad as one who enjoys and follows science and its theories (its remakable how unproven and speculative it is).
    There is one certainty known to breeders. Inbreeding degenerates the species thats devolution not evolution. This is why fresh blood stocks are regularly introduced.

    The whole point about Revelation is that Man is limited by what he can know and or infer through reason. The Greeks believed in reincarnation as does the Dali Llama, based on their interpretation of sound evidence
    This is where Faith and Revelation enter. Our Lord as the God Man gives us the Truth that’s is beyond Mans capabilities. He also opened for Us Heaven (which is Our True Home) .

    Now lets look at modern rationalism and mans interpretations and inferences, which now specifically excludes revelation. This is simply an attempt to take man back to His state under Original SIN (to negate Our Lord’s Passion).
    Modern science KILLS its offspring (abortion, weapons of Mass Destruction), destroys families (marriage) and hence society (based on family), reasons and argues for the rights of bestiality .
    Permits global monopolies of resources and especially money to private stateless individuals (who hide behind corporate structures). Where did this freedom to ensnare and monopolise resources and wealth come from? The Reformation, that threw off the shackles of Faith and Morals in Protest against the yoke of Christ (Peter).

    The enemies of Fatima are those denying that Our Lady in her flesh and body (thats what the dogma of the assumption means) can walk and appear and talk on Earth out of Love for her children and warning them!

    The Evolution of Man is treated today as Dogmatic BUT the Truth from Our Lord through the Apostles is CREATOR.

  34. The Raven says:

    Roger, if the Third Secret just parrots the Apocalypse, then it’s telling us nothing new and we don’t really need to concern ourselves with it any more: it was a message carried to particular people at a particular time; if it says nothing more than the Apocalypse then we already have that and don’t need anything else (vide Dives and Lazarus).

    And as Toad rightly says, evolution is not a revelation – private or not – it is a theory about how things came to be; an explanation as to how God wrought His creation.

    May I also point out that many of the greatest proponents of “Modern Science™” have been and are believing Catholic – priests, religious and laity?

  35. toadspittle says:

    “The Evolution of Man is treated today as Dogmatic “
    No it isn’t, Robert. No more than relativity, or quantum theory is. Everything is open to revision. Everything. If it’s not – it will soon be dead

    “Modern science KILLS its offspring (abortion, weapons of Mass Destruction), destroys families (marriage) and hence society (based on family), reasons and argues for the rights of bestiality .”
    How do you account for anesthetics, Roger? Fancy having your leg cut off without that?
    Or even your head?

  36. johnhenrycn says:

    Toad (15:24) says that *Evolution* is “a biogological [yes we know] theory, based on sound evidence, which, so far, has not been falsified, which betrays his lack of understanding of the bedrock principle of scientific inquiry known as “falsifiability”, or do I misunderstand Toad’s hero, Karl Popper?

  37. Roger says:

    Pius XII
    “I’m listening to the innovators who want to dismantle the Holy Sanctuary, destroy the universal flame of the Church, reject Her finery, make Her remorseful for Her historical past! Well, my dear friend, I am convinced that the Church of Peter must take ownership of Her past, or else She will dig Her own tomb … A day will come when the civilized world will deny its God, when the Church will doubt as Peter doubted. Will be tempted to believe that man has become God, that His Son is merely a symbol, a philosophy like many others,.. (pure masonry )
    Now we have a very clearly defined contrast between the Holy Sanctuary before 1958 which was Marian and put God first and after that year a version that we see before us now that puts Man first, and is remorseful for her Historical Past.
    God isn’t mocked and the Third secret of Fatima speaks without words in the new Sanctuary of Man that is the masonic Vatican.
    I say Man’s Dogma of Evolution which is preached with relish whilst the Deposit of the Faith Public Revelation of Our Creator denied.
    The irony will not be lost between disobedience to the Queen of Heaven and Our Creator and the princes of this world and their Dogmas.

  38. Roger says:

    Now we understand that the third secret is in the Deposit of the Faith what we need now is the missing explaination of this revelation because the vision as presented isn’t reflected in the Gospels and the Apoc cited by JP II and Lucia. .

  39. The Raven says:

    We already have that, Roger; it was opened to us by the previous Holy Father:

    “What remains was already evident when we began our reflections on the text of the ‘secret’: the exhortation to prayer as the path of ‘salvation for souls’ and, likewise, the summons to penance and conversion.”

  40. toadspittle says:

    JH – Popper, ( very basically) points out that while we cannot “prove” certain theories , we can submite them to tests and discard the ones that fail, i.e. “falsify” them.
    Evolution or “Natural Selection,'” is such a theory (and will always remain a theory- like gravity) . So far Natural Selection has not been falsified. In fact repeated testing of it, and what we have recently learned (since Darwin) about genetics, biology, and the like have all greatly “strengthened” it.
    (I hope Karl would approve. Don’t know, though.)

    Roger, it’s true (at least it’s what I think) that while humans are getting more knowlegable, we are not necessarily getting any “better.” And “better,” can mean whatever you choose.
    “Science” is neutral – neither good nor bad. It’s a question of what we choose to make of it.
    You seem to be incapable of beleiving anything, except what’s universally agreed to be unbelievable. Fascinating.
    But I see what you are getting at : How can Evolution be squared with The Bible? Good point. I don’t think it can be, myself.

  41. kathleen says:

    Jabba @ 14:09 on August 5th

    Then please do not contribute to this agenda by supporting anti-catholic conspiracy theories

    ????

    It is hardly “anti-Catholic” to have legitimate doubts that a Masonic-infiltrated Vatican would allow the full revelation of Our Lady’s Third Secret to the Fatima seers to come out publicly, is it? Such a revelation might well incriminate these evil doers. It would expose their anti-Catholic manipulation of Christ’s Holy Bride for all the world to see!

    These “doubts” are owing to all previous indications from those who knew the text of the Secret long before its public revelation (including the holy St Padre Pio) leading us to believe that the Third Secret also described the unprecedented apostasy of enemies into the very heart of the Church.

    I agree with Roger’s explanation and insight on this Fatima issue.
    Good to see you here again, Roger!

  42. Roger says:

    Toad
    “But I see what you are getting at : How can Evolution be squared with The Bible? Good point. I don’t think it can be, myself.”

    Absolutely I love science by the way, but its fun to see the so called tenets being questioned and turned upside down on a weekly basis.

    But as a lover of wine you will appreciate the Miracle of Cana.
    The water into wine. Now good wine has a history and provenance. In other words we have a creative act (water into wine) with a HISTORY (thats the inbuilt History of that good wine). BUT that WINE didn’t exist before and WATER is sterile.
    A creative Act!
    The adult Man Adam (whom never had parents) . The Immaculate conception and the virgin birth are complete outside of science aren’t they! Our Lord Rose from the Dead and this is beyond science.

    This is why its called Faith and is beyond and outside of the pedantic plodding of Man. God can create a 1000 years old tree with a history built into it! So at Fatima the Sun Danced and was seen within a ten mile radius. Science says the Sun can’t Dance. See Fatima and the fortold miracle puts Faith above human science! Obviously this will be attacked by those with their own hidden agendas. Fatima won’t go away but it has many many enemies.

    The Church isn’t the creation of Man its supernatural (grace can’t be touched, tasted, measured) what we see is only the Church militant. Our Lord is the God Man come down to live amongst Us.
    This Man made modernity that has nested itself in Rome is masonic it’s a totally alien gnostic and pagan institution. It is for the Good to defend the Heavenly Bride.

  43. toadspittle says:

    “Modern science KILLS its offspring (abortion, weapons of Mass Destruction), destroys families (marriage) and hence society (based on family), reasons and argues for the rights of bestiality .”
    And yet you profess to love it, Roger? How odd. Even for you.

    I’ll ask again: What do you think of anesthetics? (Or laser surgery, refridgeration, air conditioning, or electric light.? Or even computors?)

  44. JabbaPapa says:

    toad : But I see what you are getting at : How can Evolution be squared with The Bible? Good point. I don’t think it can be, myself.

    Both Saint Augustine and Saint Thomas Aquinas had theories of what would later be called evolution — selective breeding was invented in prehistoric times after all, so that people have been wondering about these matters for a very long time.

    Pope Francis, following Aquinas, has suggested that evolution is a movement towards God’s Design, not a movement away from it.

    Evolution might be hard to square with some overly literalist biblical interpretations, but these interpretations do not constitute the Bible.

  45. GC says:

    But I think Roger is quite correct that evolution constitutes dogma in the schools and universities. Young minds are not trained in anything else.

    So, in spite of Toad’s musings that evolutionism is but a theory, for us ordinary non-toad folk it is given the status of even “dogma”. Roger is quite accurate.

    Wee kiddies in primary schools, as also secondary, are hardly equipped to be wise old quasi-toads with a cane going for country walks, to return later to our leather armchair and a pipe, for further rumination and restraining of f*rts flatus.

  46. johnhenrycn says:

    Here’s a piece
    supporting Toad’s belief that Darwin’s theory is falsifiable (and therefore science not metaphysics). I don’t agree, but like Toad, I’m poor at both metaphysics and science.

  47. Roger says:

    Toad we are children of This Era which includes the sciences etc

    The Faith tells Us that Our Parents were exiled because of the original Sin of Our first parents Adam and Eve. This Earth is that exile, it isn’t a Paradise but is a place where we can earn and choose Our Eternity Heaven or Hell. Hell was shown at Fatima and Heaven promised through Our Lady.

    Fatima therefor reveals to Man the fruits in Eternity of His free will decisions (Fatima reveals this choice and of Eternity and judgement. that is for ALL Men) . Christ restores all things meaning that through Him man will one day be restored to Paradise. The Fathers of the Church tell Us that the Apoc is Christ Triumph on the Path to this restored Paradise.

    Without the Divine Life Man is worse than a brute animal (spiritually dead) pandering to his vices and avaricious of material possessions without regard to the life of His soul. Like the possessed swine in the gospels. WW I was a Hell on Earth.
    Or
    He evolves into the spiritual creature through the Life of Grace becomes the Son/Daughters of Our Heavenly Father and this is through the Church and the sacraments.

    The husbandry of Adam includes breeding which as any farmer or gardener would recognise not a evolution but simply husbandry to produce good stock. Whats the big deal in growing and nurturing good stock, with fresh blood because inbreeding degrades the quality of the stock.

    If you are truly Charitable you Love God and your neighbour. SO WHY IS THIS CURIA ENCOURAGING MAN TO WALLOW IN SIN so that their mortal souls are lost for Eternity. That’s not Charity and its not Of Christ who told the woman taken in adultery to SIN NO MORE.

    I don’t listen to Shepherds who look like Lambs and speak like the Dragon.

    So Fatima and the Last Things Heaven or Hell.
    The road to Heaven or the Broad worldly road to Hell.
    The Way of the Lamb or that of the Dragon. Masonry is VISIBLE Darkness the road to HELL

    I find the Blog about Fr Amorth very appropriate for a Curia that needed to be exorcised and remind of St Pio’s saying
    “My mission will begin after my death.”

  48. toadspittle says:

    “…evolution constitutes dogma in the schools and universities. Young minds are not trained in anything else.”
    What else might young minds be “trained in”? Roger’s idea that the world is 7.000 years old?
    Is that wise?
    But I bet there are some religion-based schools doing just that – at this minute.
    Would you like your children (or anybody’s) “trianed in ” that, GC?
    No pipe for Old Fart Toad. Nor fags.

    Roger, if you don’t beleive in “Natural Selection,” how do you account for Kangharoos?
    (and were they included in the Ark?)

  49. JabbaPapa says:

    But I think Roger is quite correct that evolution constitutes dogma in the schools and universities. Young minds are not trained in anything else.

    I agree — though a lot of confusion arises from a common misunderstanding of the word “dogma”.

    It means “that which is to be taught”, and rather than having any exclusively religious purpose, in fact every particular branch of philosophy proposes its dogmas, including very ironically several schools of atheist ideology

  50. JabbaPapa says:

    It is hardly “anti-Catholic” to have legitimate doubts that a Masonic-infiltrated Vatican would allow the full revelation of Our Lady’s Third Secret to the Fatima seers to come out publicly, is it? Such a revelation might well incriminate these evil doers

    Yes it is, because these grotesque conspiracy theories seek to powerfully undermine our revealed Truth in the Church of God by falsely portraying Popes and Prelates and many other simple Catholics as being “evil doers”.

  51. Roger says:

    A Pope speaking in Christ name?
    Pius XII 1952
    “.. When it is a question of defending the cause of religion, the truth, and justice and Christian civilization, we certainly cannot keep quiet….Doubtless we have condemned and rejected – as the duty of our office demands – the errors which the instigators of atheistic Communism teach, or which they do their utmost to propagate, for the greatest wrong and the detriment of the citizens; but, far from rejecting the wayward, we desire their return to the straight path of the truth. Even more: we have unmasked these falsehoods, which are often adorned with a semblance of the truth, because we love you with the heart of a father and we seek your well-being. ..”

    Never heard this from 1958 onwards did we.
    Our Lord used the whip in the Temple – now they hire the building out for corporates.

  52. Roger says:

    Toad

    I believe in Life simply look at the night sky what wonders of Life there must be there of which we have no knowledge yet.
    One certainty is that every life is totally unique, no two blades of grass are the same. Far from a narrow puritan mindset the Catholic relishes Life seeing in all of this Creative Love and wanting to go to Our Father’s Kingdom.

    But the wages of Sin is death and who sets out what is SIN? Man or God? Because I hear Human Rights and never God’s Rights from Rome. Just sounding brass with no content.

  53. kathleen says:

    Jabba – you call them “grotesque conspiracy theories”, but that is no more than your own personal misinterpretation of my words. A “conspiracy theorist” bases their ideas on nebulous imaginings. That is not the case with those questioning the completeness of the Third Secret of Fatima.

    What I was talking about were “legitimate doubts” that certain powerful members in the Vatican (that we know has been infiltrated by Masons, Marxists and the “lavender mafia” pushing the LGBT agenda) would allow incriminating evidence of their “evil” to come to light. Or are you blind and deaf to what is taking place in the Church today? The good and faithful bishops and priests are suffering greatly from the undermining of the Deposit of Faith coming from these enemies of Christ. And do you really doubt the truth of Our Blessed Lady’s warnings in El Quito more than 400 years ago, or at La Salette and many other acknowledged apparition sites, and the prophesies of canonised saints and mystics where Our Lady and these saints foresaw and announced that the Church would be attacked from within by Satan’s minions IN OUR TIME?

    I have already said that we do not know for certain whether this apostacy is indeed an integral part of the Third Secret of Fatima that was separated from the one we know,and which must therefore have been deviously kept hidden from the public by evil, prominent clerics – wolves in sheep clothing – but there is plenty of information now that points to this being a possibility. And everything about this amazing communication from Heaven, that is Fatima, would fit into the last part of the Three Secrets concluding with a forewarning of this atheistic infiltration into the Church: an apostacy “starting from the top”. No wonder St Padre Pio, who knew its full content, was so greatly tormented when he contemplated this fearsome achievement of the Devil, and why he offered all his prayers and suffering for the Church in Her Via Crucis She was about to undergo.

  54. The Raven says:

    So Pope Benedict and Pope St John Paul II were in on the plot too?

    Please don’t be silly, Roger.

  55. JabbaPapa says:

    A “conspiracy theorist” bases their ideas on nebulous imaginings. That is not the case with those questioning the completeness of the Third Secret of Fatima.

    Yes it is, I’m afraid, as the interpretations viewing the secret as signifying apostasy within the Church are valid interpretations of its text.

    The words “before reaching there the Holy Father passed through a big city half in ruins and half trembling with halting step, afflicted with pain and sorrow, he prayed for the souls of the corpses he met on his way” and so on can most certainly be interpreted in that manner, particularly in the light of other warnings given elsewhere.

    And do you really doubt the truth of Our Blessed Lady’s warnings in El Quito more than 400 years ago, or at La Salette and many other acknowledged apparition sites

    No I certainly don’t, but this does not mean that I must therefore accept the claims of fatimist conspiracy theorists who, if anything, are a symptom of the internal dissent that was prophesied.

    which must therefore have been deviously kept hidden from the public

    That’s just pure conspiracy theory language.

  56. toadspittle says:

    “Pius XII 1952
    “.. When it is a question of defending the cause of religion, the truth, and justice and Christian civilization, we certainly cannot keep quiet…”

    He kept quiet enough about Hitler, didn’t he? No doubt he had excellent reasons…but.
    (Oh, let’s not start all that again,Toad!)

    “A “conspiracy theorist” bases their ideas on nebulous imaginings. “
    Like the ones about the “perfidious Jews” in Hollywood, Kathleen?

  57. Roger says:

    A reality check here. The Church is the mystical body of Christ.
    The issues raised by Kathleen are correct as is the automatic excommunication of these beliefs, associations and opinions. They like Adam with the full knowledge of the consequences of their choices and actions are excommunicated and outside of the Church.
    We can go further citing the the Early Church and the Holy martyrs who would NOT adore demonic pagan Gods (which is what the Masons do) and you cannot worship in a synagogue (because this is to deny Christ and the Trinity).
    Knowingly worshiping pagan deities by accepting the mark of a pagan demonic deity. Just look at Our Lord’s 40 days in the desert and tick off what Rome has been doing and accepting before your eyes.

    Fr Amorth was an exorcist and exorcism fulfils the express mandate given by Our Lord on the casting out of the demonical possessed. Exorcism is to save souls from the Demon and an Eternity of Hell. How many Bishops believe in Exorcism today?

    If a soul knowingly and willing places themselves under the Authority of the demon, for whatever reason. That would be a religious like Luther (who was outside of the Church) or a Bishop, priest knowingly becomes a mason for instance the excommunication is automatic. They have in free will chosen the demon as their Head and cast off Christ.

    I remind readers that the most important matters are NOT the transient human but the Eternity verities Hell and Heaven. Our Lord could not have been more explicit in seek you first the Kingdom of Heaven and All the Rest will be added.

    So all of this worldly prattle about human rights is resolved by the Church seeking first the Kingdom Of Heaven.

    Also understand if an Angel Of Light (Lucifer) preaches a Gospel other than Christ let them be anathema.
    God is not repsector of personages he sees the Soul before Him Our Lord gave His Life for that one soul.

    These realities were expressly known off course to Fr Amorth and St Padre Pio.

    A Pope MUST put Christ First before the opinions of this world and its Prince.

  58. Roger says:

    Toad did St Peter sermonise against Nero?

  59. toadspittle says:

    “Toad did St Peter sermonise against Nero?”
    It seems not, as far as I can gather, Rog. Do you think that was wise of him?
    I do.

    “Just look at Our Lord’s 40 days in the desert …”
    How do we know what happened there? Who did Christ tell?

  60. Roger says:

    At Last Toad there is Hope for you but you need to put on a spiritual Hat and not that off a worldy hack.
    What makes the Bible complete is this cross referencing and complete integrity of content – it has one Author and uses many scribes writing in different epochs and eras. St Paul doesn’t write from personal knowledge of Our Lord but from this seamless connection of the Old and the New.
    Spiritual material has to be sipped and taken with spiritual exercises its a very strong wine (Cana)
    The Bible is full of private revelations, so whom did Our Lord tell of his 40 days Temptations. Our Lady were else do you think the knowledge in the gospels came from? .
    Also the Annuciation (Private Revelation) . Also St Joseph’s Dream and flight into Egypt (Private).The Virgin Birth (private)
    Notice how with Heaven the really important is hidden away and revealed to the humble and simple which is what makes Fatima so important.

    Heaven does nothing without first revealing through His servants the Prophets. The Bible isn;t an ordinary book because its author is outside of Creation and time. The Jews knew of Daniels Prophesy of the coming of the Messiah.

    Our Lord said the sheep hear my voice. What is this voice? a physical human voice? Man (Adam) is a temple of the living God unless through Sin He loses this indwelling. Fatima will not go away because what was ordered to be made know was surpressed.

    Now we have enough factual evidence. Pius XII stance on Atheist Russia , Following His death we have the secret Vatican-Moscow Agreement, clearly not with Pius XII agreement!

    So by 1960 it was clear that the requested Consecration of RUSSIA to the Immaculate Heart wasn’t going to happen. Fr Amorth tells you it didn’t happen. and he was within hearing and touching distance. Lucia wasn’t there,

    Now here is the duplicity of that typed letter.

    1/ Lucy Private Revelation and Fatima .We hear it all the time WE DON’T HAVE TO BELIEVE THAT (the stock in trade answer turned out again and again parrot fashion, but really to throw of the scent)

    2/ Fact Lucia wasn’t there Father Amorth was.
    SO in producing the Letter Lucia must have been TOLD a different story mustn’t she but by whom? Private Relevation (don’t have to believe that do we!) OR by a masonic Curia?

    These hypocrites deny Lucia authority as Private Relevation BUT yet these doublespeakers (Masonic) want you to think that Lucia has been told by heaven that the Consecration was done!

    3/ So who do I believe the first hand witness or the second hand advised opinion!

    Make no mistake Rome is directly responsible for the Apostacy against the Faith in the 20 century.

  61. Roger says:

    Toad made a reference to Hitler in respect of Pius XII.
    1/ Fatima fortold the end of WW I
    2/ Fatima Our Lady said that she would come back to ask for the Consecration Of Russia. The Failure to do this would result in another War (during the Pontificate of Pius XI)
    3/ That Pontificate Pius XI . This is an especially important Prophecy naming a Future then unknown Pope and Papacy. The first question asked of the New Pope is their name and this comes form God not Man. The Holy Ghost and a new Pope and their Papal Name . Our Lady was telling the children and Us the Future of the Church in naming a Pope and by association their Pontificate.
    4/ The protagonists of WW II were not fortold BUT the spread of the Errors of Russia were subject to the express Consecration of Russia to the Immaculate.
    5/ Pius XII stance on Atheist Russia is in perfect accordance with Heavens warnings. The condemnation of Socialism had already been done by the Popes. Hitler (National Socialism).
    6/ At the end of WW II the Russian (Soviet) Empire dramatically expanded into Christendom Europe with the agreement and collusion of the West! For the record Churchill, Roosevelt and Stalin were Masons these carved the world up at the End of WW II.
    There is the complete masonic fallacy of the separation between Church and State. Its a lie the Earth is the Lords and therefor Falls under the Authority of the Church Militant. The Ten Commandments are the Natural Laws governing mankind. This doesn’t make the Pope the fount of ALL knowledge in ALL fields. Christ restores ALL that Man has lost through SIN and He is the King Of Kings Lord Of Lords and the world is subject to Him not the other way round.

    If interested I believe you can trace the downfall of the Soviets to a quite remarkable event planned in 1980.
    1988 was the 1000 anniversary of the Conversion of Russia, The Orthodox began there planning in 1980 On December 23, 1980, the Holy Synod of the Russian Orthodox Church elected to “start preparing for the celebration of the Russian Orthodox Church of the forthcoming Great Jubilee.”
    On May 17, 1983, in Moscow, the buildings of the former Danilov Monastery were officially transferred to the control of the Church. The buildings became the domain and a “spiritual and administrative center” of the Moscow Patriarchate. This was seen to representing a new change in the attitude of the government to the needs of the Orthodox Church in the USSR. It was the first time a monastic cloister had been returned to the Church in the period since 1930. This generated interest about the upcoming anniversary in the general public.
    All of this before the alleged 1984 Consecration where Russia was NOT mentioned and which seems rather oppurtunist in the knowledge of the what was already happening in Russia.. The Atheism jumped into pluralist masonic Europe did it not!

  62. toadspittle says:

    ” …so whom did Our Lord tell of his 40 days Temptations. Our Lady were else do you (Toad) think the knowledge in the gospels came from? “
    The trouble is, Roger, it doesn’t say so.
    Whatever I (or you) choose to surmise is not the point. It might be “false news.”
    Proper attribution is needed. Or else it shouldn’t be printed.

    “So who do I believe the first hand witness or the second hand advised opinion!”
    Quite. Except in this case (of Jesus in the desert,) there is no named witness of any description.

    I’ve stayed away from the Russia-consecration fracas – meaningless to me. But surely it’s also equally meaningless to everyone else, now Soviet Communism is stone dead?
    No? Why not? Raven will know. Roger thinks he does.

  63. The Raven says:

    Tripe.

    Roger, you are asking us to believe that the Pope who was instrumental in the defeat of Communism also collaborated in some sort of plot to spread it into the west.

    You are also saying that Lucia, who knew full well what the Third Secret said, can’t be trusted, but that this fourth hand nonsense attributed to Fr Amroth should be believed in its stead?

    I’m finding it hard to characterise all of this nonsense about the Third Secret (as opposed to the Fatima event itself) as being of anything other than Satanic origin: sowing seeds of distrust and disunity in the Church.

  64. toadspittle says:

    “…sowing seeds of distrust and disunity in the Church.”
    Which might well be a very salutary outcome, Raven.
    It might make people more open to questioning everything – yes, everything..
    …Which is our (God-given?) right and duty as decent, caring, feeling, reasoning, human beings. (IMAO)

    Let’s get down to earth, at least, where we actually condemned to live. Let the Third Secrets,
    ( as well as the first, second, forth, and fifth) and the Apocalyptic Prophecies, and the Secret Symbols, and the Numerology, and the Great Pyramid, and the Wicked Masons, and the Perfidious Jews, and Poor Foolish Old Satan, all shift for themselves.
    They are simply not worth our trouble. They don’t live here any more, if they ever did.
    (“The Devil Himself made you write that ,Toad.” Oh, no, he didn’t.)

    Toad, Foolish Old Fart, you are preaching again. Not your metier Stop it.

  65. Roger says:

    Raven
    Perhaps you would like your tripe with custard?
    .
    1/ Lucia wasn’t physically there in 1984 was she. So how did she find out?
    Fr. Robert Fox . “Fatima Today, The Third Millennium”
    “..In the summer of 1989, when Sister Lucia began to go public stating that the Collegial Consecration for the
    conversion of Russia had been accomplished as of March 25, 1984 ..” Lucia said: (‘I’ve read reports of the
    consecration, what the Pope did, what the Bishops did, etc. … I’ve had no way of communicating.”)
    In other words she wasn’t there herself and had READ the reports!

    2/ Fr Amorth was physically there and he certainly wasn’t on his own was he?
    For what purpose or reason would he have to say this? Was he ever known to be a lier? Was he a fraud? Why are you calling him a lier? Perhaps you do not like the almost certain truth that St Pio knew the third secret of Fatima and La Salette prophecy that Rome would become the seat of Anti Christ.

    3/ I pointed out that actually the change was starting at least 4-6 years or more earlier and became evident with the planing and decision in Russia by the government and the Orthodox to celebrate 1000 years of Christianity was underway.

    4/ Knowing what was being planned in Russia from 1980 and 1983 . Then 1984 seems and oppurtunist/chancers ploy. All I saw was publicity and staged photo shoots. Did Poland leave an Atheist or Christian Russia? they certainly joined an Atheist Socialist Europe with it Abortion, Pluralism, Divorce. Out of the frying pan and into the fire!

    The undermining of the Church. Father Malachi Martin would agree with Bishop Schnieder would He.

    As for Fatima and the End Times and that creature called Anti Christ we have confirmation of this by JP II and indeed Lucia with reference to the Apocalypse

  66. The Raven says:

    An interesting (and unappetising) culinary image, Roger.

    1. Lucia read an account of what had happened and told us that it accorded with the instructions that she had been given. Was Lucia lying?

    In this article, if the quotes are accurate, Fr Amorth was just expressing his own private opinion on the matter, I think Lucia had a better claim to know what was required than he did.

    2. The account in this article comes after Fr Amorth had died and from a source with a book to sell and is being reported through the lenses of two websites with their own agendas and enthusiasms (three if you include this one); the chances of this dish having been spiced up are rather high, don’t you think?

    In addition to which, the stuff about the Third Secret is journalistic interpolation – Fr Amorth was discussing a conversation that he’d had with St Pio, who does not appear to have actually mentioned Fatima at all.

    And let’s not forget that Lucia herself also said that the material published by the Vatican was complete.

    3. As the USSR was still murdering priests and locking up Christians, I think it highly unlikely that they were planning any such commemoration.

    4. Poland left an atheist USSR and is now providing a refreshing counter-example of a Catholic society to a Godless West (said with deep misgivings about what PIS are up to), so your point is just more nonsense.

  67. Roger says:

    Raven

    I have been really wondering why I came back to this blog site. Now it all makes sense with pieces of a jigsaw falling into place. I knew of this process and dates which like a seed was germinating in that Nation Russia.As I say the pennies for me began to fall into place.

    Lucia read an account late in 1980’s coupled with the changes she could see in the then collapsing old Soviet Union and read the alleged 1984 Consecration. Her logic is understandable but her source secondary.

    The question is really when and were did this resurrection of Faith in an Atheist Nation begin and when was the spiritual catalyst because it was clearly long before 1980. The enormous quantum change was that the then Russian government joining with the Russian Orthodox Church to celebrate 1000 years of Christ (Our Lady Of Vladimir) in Russia . I could so wish that France, Italy, Spain and England could have this same spiritual Conversion!

    The knowledge of this great event and the need for the long term planning obviously began well before 1980 by the Russian Orthodox Church. All of this was well before 1984 I thank Fr Amorth for his honest account of again the Consecration to the Immaculate Heart that expressly didn’t mention RUSSIA. 1984 was certainly not the spiritual cataclyst for this process which by then was were well under way.

    We share a Love for the Papacy but Our Lord is meek and lowly and Our Lady humble and gentle. The Trinity is selfless. Selfless Love is the consistant image of the Trinity and Our Lady. Simply put the servant isn’t greater than the master! The PR seeking Curia with its photo shoot stunts are anathema to me. I see the cult of Man replacing Jesus and Mary. These are pushed to the back of the queue so as to not to offend other Religions (pure masonic).

    What could be more appropriate for Our Creator than the Triumph Of Our Immaculate Heavenly Mother over Athiest Russia and Marx who expressly recognised Darwin’s Evolution.. The Dogma of the Immaculate Conception because of the Original Sin of Adam and Eve.

    The 1984 alleged Consecration to the Immaculate Heart Of Mary wasn’t of Russia, that Nation was expressly omitted and this is what Fr Amorth reported and witnessed.

    Masonic Double speak a Curia which openly praises Evolution and in the same breath talks of the Immaculate Conception.

  68. Roger says:

    Refering again to the Blog title Padre Pio saying that the third secret of Fatima was about a false church in the End Times. (Apoc)

    I think it appropriate to let John Paul II reveal , at least in part, elements in the third secret of Fatima

    John Paul II in Fulda, Germany, in November 1980, spoke differently to those who asked about the “Third Secret” of Fatima.
    He said: «… as on other occasions, the Church was reborn in blood, it will not be different this time (…).»
    Then, on the contents of the “Third Secret,” the Pope added, «it should be sufficient for all Christians to know this:
    “when you read that the oceans will flood entire continents, that from one moment to the next millions of people will suddenly
    perish,” if you know this, it is not truly needed to ask for the publication of this “Secret”.»

    Where are these words in the document presented by the Vatican, on June 26, 2000? But they do occur in the extracts from “Neues Europa” October 15, 1963 Published by the German Stuttgard magazine,

    “..A great chastisement will fall on the entire human race; not today as yet, not tomorrow, but in the second half of the
    Twentieth Century…”

    “..No longer does order reign anywhere and Satan will reign over the highest places directing the course of events. He really will succeed in infiltrating to the top of the Church..”

    “..Also for the Church a time of Her greatest trials will come. Cardinals will oppose Cardinals; Bishops will oppose Bishops
    and Satan will march amid their ranks, and in Rome there will be changes. What is rotten will fall, and what will fall will never rise again. The Church will be darkened and the world deranged by terror. ..”

    “..A great war will break out within the second half of the Twentieth Century. Fire and smoke will fall from Heaven, the water of the oceans will become vapors and the foam will rise up and flooding and sinking everything. Millions and millions of people will die by the hour and the survivors will envy the dead. ..”

    “..Death will reign everywhere for the errors committed by the foolish and by the partisans of Satan, who, then and only then, will reign over the world. At last, those who will survive all of these events will once more proclaim God and His Glory and serve Him like before, when the world was not so corrupted…”

    May 11, 2010, Benedict XVI also spoke of the “need for the passion of the Church which naturally is reflected in the person of the Pope,” and, therefore, he announced sufferings for the Church, specifying that such suffering would have originated not from external enemies, but from within the same Church.

    Benedict XVI, with his own words of 2010, brought the issue of the “Third Secret” of Fatima into the limelight upsetting the previous official position of the Vatican. Why did Benedict XVI make this sudden “U-turn” on the “Third Secret” of Fatima?

  69. toadspittle says:

    “..A great chastisement will fall on the entire human race; not today as yet, not tomorrow, but in the second half of the Twentieth Century…”
    But it didn’t, did, it Roger? – I’d have noticed if it had.

    “..A great war will break out within the second half of the Twentieth Century. Fire and smoke will fall from Heaven, the water of the oceans will become vapors and the foam will rise up and flooding and sinking everything. Millions and millions of people will die by the hour and the survivors will envy the dead. ..”
    Maybe they just gotthe timing a bit off – and it will happen this century?
    Sounds like Global Warming, and Trump, dunnit?

    “..a Curia which openly praises Evolution..”
    Nobody “praises” evolution, Roger – any more than they “praise” gravity. It just is.

  70. kathleen says:

    Thank you very much for your comments on this thread with this marvellous testimony on the Fatima events. Your deep knowledge and insights into this gift from God and His Blessed Mother (that Fatima truly is for Mankind) is greatly enriching and encouraging for me…. and, I believe, for many other Catholics looking in who, owing to the opposition, would probably prefer not to comment!

  71. The Raven says:

    Roger

    That is utterly ridiculous; you are basically accusing Lucia of being untrustworthy.

    I remember the late 1980s very well, although you’d got convulsions in the Soviet Bloc, there was absolutely no indication that the USSR itself would fall; the coup against Gorbachev in 1992 and the subsequent collapse of Communist rule there were bolts from the blue.

    And let’s look at those words from Fulda (my emphasis):

    Pope John Paul II replied: “Given the seriousness of the contents, my predecessors in the Petrine office diplomatically preferred to postpone publication so as not to encourage the world power of Communism to make certain moves.

    “On the other hand, it should be sufficient for all Christians to know this: if there is a message in which it is written that the oceans will flood whole areas of the earth, and that from one moment to the next millions of people will perish, truly the publication of such a message is no longer something to be so much desired.”

    The Pope continued: “Many wish to know simply from curiosity and a taste for the sensational, but they forget that knowledge also implies responsibility. They only seek the satisfaction of their curiosity, and that is dangerous if at the same time they are not disposed to do something, and if they are convinced that it is impossible to do anything against evil.”

    At this point the Pope grasped a Rosary and said: “Here is the remedy against this evil. Pray, pray, and ask for nothing more. Leave everything else to the Mother of God.”

    The Holy Father was then asked: “What is going to happen to the Church?”

    He answered: “We must prepare ourselves to suffer great trials before long, such as will demand of us a disposition to give up even life, and a total dedication to Christ and for Christ… With your and my prayer it is possible to mitigate this tribulation, but it is no longer possible to avert it, because only thus can the Church be effectively renewed. How many times has the renewal of the Church sprung from blood! This time, too, it will not be otherwise. We must be strong and prepared, and trust in Christ and His Mother, and be very, very assiduous in praying the Rosary.”

    Put bluntly, the Pope did not say that the message of the Third Secret was that the world was going to end, he said that *even if* the message said that, it wouldn’t be something that would make him publish the secret.

    And, again, concerning the Church, the Pope is not explicitly referring to the Third Secret, he is merely restating something that was a theme for him, that the Church is facing a true trial.

    In short, Cardinal Bertone was exactly right when he said:

    That’s absolutely crazy. Look, are you claiming that the prophecy of Fatima is about the apostasy of the Church of Rome? That Fatima is a prediction of Rome’s transformation into the throne of the Antichrist? Despite the love Our Lady has for the Pope and the Popes for Our Lady? Anyone can write books based on conspiracy theories, on biased interpretations. Anybody can take sentences out of context and present them as clues to some supposed plot to avoid divulging the truth and to transmit it in a code that only the initiates can understand. No, the whole theory you allude to is a fabrication. And this supposedly factual account is actually the sort of device the Masons used to invent to discredit the Church. I’m surprised that journalists and writers who claim to be Catholic let themselves be taken in.

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