In new interview, Abp. Viganò discusses ‘failure’ of Vatican II, Novus Ordo Mass

The next Pope will have to restore all the liturgical books and banish from Catholic churches their unseemly parody, in whose realization notorious modernists and heretics collaborated.

by Maike Hickson

Archbishop Viganò prays the rosary at the 2017 Rome March for Life

June 15, 2021 (LifeSiteNews) — Archbishop Viganò has given a new interview, this time to Abbé Claude Barthe, a French expert of the liturgy and a great supporter of the motu proprio Summorum Pontificum allowing the traditional Latin Mass to flourish in the Church. The interview dwells on liturgical questions, the Second Vatican Council, as well as the Society of St. Pius X.

Abbé Barthe, who authored numerous books on the traditional liturgy of the Church, had a year ago entered into a supportive, public discussion with Archbishop Viganò after the latter had started publicly to criticize the Second Vatican Council and its aftermath. This new interview is a sort of a follow-up of that discussion, and these two clergymen also differ on some points. As Abbé Barthe puts it, Viganò “agreed to answer our questions on the theme of the new liturgy and in a rather astonishing way (astonishing even to ourselves as he goes after a process of the ‘reform of the reform’, a process which we support).” Barthe adds that he is “very glad to offer our readers this interview, as we believe it serves the debate and promotes reflection.” He presents the interview in the journal Res Novae in French, Italian, and English.

The English translation of this new interview has been made by Diane Montagna for Arouca Press. Arouca Press is soon going to publish a book edited by me with Archbishop Viganò’s criticisms of the Council, the liturgical reform, as well as the message of Fatima. The book will also include the responses of other clergymen and laymen to his criticisms of the Council.

As our readers will see, Archbishop Viganò once more finds strong words of criticism of the Second Vatican Council (1962 – 1965) as well as the Novus Ordo Mass (promulgated in 1969). He states that “we must be very clear that the Second Vatican Council was conceived as a revolutionary event.” He goes on to say that “if Vatican II was a revolutionary act, both in the way it was conducted and in the documents it promulgated, it is logical and legitimate to think that its liturgy is also affected by this ideological approach.”

When commenting on Pope Benedict XVI’s attempts at restoring the traditional liturgy (which was effectively suppressed after 1969) and the movement referred to above by Abbé Barthe as the “reform of the reform”, Viganò concludes that these attempts were defective:

I believe that behind these attempts, which seem to be motivated by pious intentions, lies a fact that none of these prelates [Pope Benedict and Cardinal Robert Sarah] dare confess: the failure of the Council and even more so of its liturgy. Returning to the ancient rite and definitively archiving the squalor of the Novus Ordo would require great humility, because those who would like to save it from shipwreck today were yesterday among the most enthusiastic supporters of the liturgical reform, and of Vatican II with it.

That is to say, Archbishop Viganò rejects the idea of the “reform of the reform” (further making changes to existing rites), but rather proposes a return to the old liturgy and its faith.

In another field of the liturgical debate, the archbishop also adds new comments, that is to say about the first grave changes of the liturgy made under Pope Pius XII by Annibale Bugnini: the change of the rite of Holy Week in 1955. “Archbishop Annibale Bugnini,” Viganò writes, “was one of the collaborators in the drafting of the Ordo Hebdomadae Sanctae instauratus promulgated during the pontificate of Pius XII. The serious deformations of the new Missal are in nuce [essentially] contained in the rite of Holy Week, demonstrating that the demolition plan had already begun.”

Last, but not least, the Italian prelate also comments on the situation of the Society of St. Pius X with regard to its relationship with the Vatican. Unlike with the Franciscans of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, who had been more and more inclined to embrace the traditional liturgy and whose order has been essentially destroyed by Pope Francis, the SSPX still has a certain institutional independence from the Vatican. For Viganò, this seems to be a positive thing in light of the current papacy:

With regard to the Society of St. Pius X, we are witnessing a more subtle maneuver: Bergoglio maintains “good neighborly” relations, and while recognizing certain prerogatives of its Superiors — thus demonstrating that he considers them living members of the Church — on the other hand he may want to barter their complete canonical regularization for an acceptance of the “conciliar magisterium.” It is clear that this is an insidious trap: once an agreement is signed with the Holy See, the independence which the Society enjoys in virtue of its position of not being completely regular would be lost, and with it, its economic independence. Let us not forget that the Society has assets and resources that guarantee sustenance and security for its members. At a time when the Vatican is experiencing a serious financial crisis, those assets are certainly enticing to many, as we have seen in other cases, starting with the Franciscans of the Immaculate, and the persecution of Father Mannelli.

Full interview with Archbishop Viganò…..


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4 Responses to In new interview, Abp. Viganò discusses ‘failure’ of Vatican II, Novus Ordo Mass

  1. Why is this so stinking jack ass important? And don’t you dare call me a liberal but I don’t give a shit so why in the hell do you all point and say liberals anything that you can’t define?
    If I was your teacher I’d give you a 200 page paper assignment to do and what exactly is liberal?


  2. Reblogged this on Zero Lift-Off and commented:
    I just today read a Protestant denominational blog posting which directly attacked the whole of the Catholic Church and all its follows as being a false system and antichrist, and this John MacArthur being quoted goes on to say anyone who is a member of said church will go to hell! I can’t believe all the attacking of the Holy Apostolic Church going on from outside and now inside with this latest heretic Bergoglio, who is continuing what I see as Satan’s work, which the evil one initiated right in the beginning after Jesus was risen, attempting to disrupt God’s Church on earth for His flock that Jesus left Apostle Peter to carry forward, to be led by him! Those earliest attacks which weren’t anything extreme or too disruptive did continue on through the centuries without too much damage to the church. Then that unequivocal rebellious nature of Satan did kick into full throttle with Martin Luther’s heretical Reformation Movement, causing a major split and scattering of the flock of faithful, which went on and produced what now are nearly countless denominations of the Christian Faith in our time, some of which bore out living proof in time of how that transgression by Luther was initiated by evil and still produces that evil fruit or damage! As for example, like when preacher Reverend Jim Jones and his People’s Temple left California and went to Guyana in 1977 where he took 909 followers to death and destruction with him; or how self-styled preachers like Jim Bakker who was convicted on 24 counts of fraud, scamming his followers; a con job for big money, which was certainly not Christianity or a Church of God; it was the church of Jim! This following excerpt to me does say concisely what I see going on over time and now especially, after getting to read this recent Protestant article today.

    “It is no coincidence that Luther and the other Protestant and Anglican heretics used the liturgy as their main method to spread their errors among the faithful.”

    But here reading about all of the disruption presently in the Vatican is so disturbing to think that Freemason antichrist is in the position of Pope. The same sickening feeling I get when I think how such a fraud and corrupted man that made a career of being a crooked insider Washington Politician for 48 years basically doing nothing of any substantive value for the American people but how he did manage to sell out America and its people to become a very wealthy and powerful man using all the possible backdoor deals and scams he could pull off. That same man is in very good favor with Bergoglio even though he now as President has promoted and appropriated more money in Washington to be diverted to Abortion services Globally!

    These two men alone being so heinously corrupted and sociopathic at this point in human history one as the figurehead in the most powerful government in the world and the other at the head of the largest and oldest Christian church on earth; this tells me that we have to pray harder for people like wonderful Archbishop Viganò and others by the grace of God to bring the proper order and balance back to our beloved church. I want to quote the Archbishop here further to reiterate the strong and encouraging way in which he sees things and will proceed and continue to advocate.

    “We must be very clear that the Second Vatican Council was conceived as a revolutionary event.” He goes on to say that “if Vatican II was a revolutionary act, both in the way it was conducted and in the documents it promulgated, it is logical and legitimate to think that its liturgy is also affected by this ideological approach.”

    “Having said that, our legitimate suspicion is also confirmed when we consider who the architects of that liturgy were: prelates often suspected of belonging to Freemasonry who were notoriously progressive and who, with the Liturgical Movement of the 1920s and 1930s, had already begun to suggest more than questionable ideas and spread practices that were influenced by archaeologism, which was later condemned by Pius XII in the encyclical Mediator Dei”.

    “The bi-millennial rite that began with the Apostles and harmoniously developed through the centuries. The reformed liturgy — as any competent scholar knows — is the result of an ideological compromise between the Catholic lex orandi and the heretical demands of Protestants and Lutherans. Since the Church’s faith is expressed in public worship, it was essential that the liturgy adapt to the new way of believing, weakening or denying those truths that were considered “uncomfortable” for the pursuit of ecumenical dialogue.”

    “A reform that simply wanted to prune certain rites that modern sensibilities could no longer understand could easily have avoided the slavish repetition of what Luther did at the time of the pseudo-reformation and Cranmer did after the Anglican schism: the mere fact of having adopted the innovations with which the heretics rejected certain points of Catholic dogma is an unquestionable demonstration of the Pastors’ subordination to the consensus of those outside the Church, to the detriment of the flock the Lord entrusted to them. Imagine what one of the martyrs of Calvinism, or of the fury of King James, would have thought in seeing popes, cardinals and bishops using a table in place of the altar that cost them their lives; and what respect a heretic might have for the hated Roman Babylon, which is all caught up in awkwardly mimicking what the “reformers” had done four centuries earlier, although perhaps in a more dignified manner. Let us not forget that Luther’s liturgical heresies were conveyed by Bach chorales, while the celebrations of the conciliar Church are accompanied by compositions of unprecedented ugliness. The liturgical breakdown has revealed a doctrinal breakdown, humiliating the Holy Church out of a mere eagerness to please the mentality of the world.”

    As exactly being as I see it what is happening now in these times!

    “Archbishop Carlo Maria Viganò: I do not believe that Bergoglio has any interest in the liturgy tout court, and a fortiori in the Tridentine liturgy, which is as alien to him and disliked as anything remotely reminiscent of Catholicism. His approach is political: he tolerates the Ecclesia Dei communities because they keep the conservatives out of the parishes, and at the same time he maintains control over them, forcing them to limit their dissent solely to the liturgical level, while ensuring their fidelity to the conciliar ideology.”

    “Bergoglio’s actions are now clearly exposed: his latest encyclical theorizes about heterodox doctrines and a scandalous subservience to the dominant ideology, which is profoundly anti-Catholic and anti-human.”

    I must add they are antichrist without any doubt and the main goal as Archbishop Viganò illustrates clearly here must be to, “proposes a return to the old liturgy and its faith.” Amen.

    God bless you and the Church,
    Brother in Christ Jesus,
    Lawrence Morra III


  3. Máire Íde says:

    The Find Me in Florida comment amuses me somewhat.

    Here’s your assignment ‘Find Me in Florda’ (I refuse the page target, unless you want to pay me to write a book):
    A Liberal is someone who is free. St. Louis Marie de Montfort says Our Lady was the most Liberal creature that ever existed. In recent years there is a tendency to use this nomenclature to describe someone who wants to be ‘free’ from God’s laws. That’s an epic fail in propaganda for Catholics, as is, for example, calling the varying degrees of heretical and apostate breakaway since Martin Luther, Calvin, Henry VIII and friends a ‘reformation’. Nevertheless, since this failure has been conceded, in common usage the word will generally be intended to signify a heretic, or someone that the author deems to have heretical leanings, There is a spectrum here both in the objective order and in the subjective perspective of those who use the term, so context on the issue, circumstances and speaker will generally be required in order to assert the meaning and extent of the term’s intent. Throws you back on opinion and relativity, I know, but welcome to a world where it is questioned whether or not the See of Peter can be a rock on which the Church is built. Not even laughing at that, it’s scary stuff for a Catholic who stops to think through the implications and should drive us to prayer and penance really…

    On the article itself, unity is something the Church should always, always seek and strive for, and this argumentativeness isn’t helpful. Take the last paragraph on the SSPX – I can’t say there weren’t times in the past year I wasn’t grateful for their independence, when other bishops in my country helped to enforce the governmental restrictions on their own priests and they kept on going. I can’t say it’s not tempting to say ‘well that worked – forget the rest of the Church!’ – But the whole thing about the Catholic Church is that it is ONE, HOLY, CATHOLIC and APOSTOLIC with a living Tradition embodied in the successors of those Jesus chose. You throw that out and what authority are you appealing to? Appealing to Tradition without the magisterium is about as balanced as Sola Scriptura. Possibly worse, when you consider the actual presence of Jesus in the Scriptures… You can’t throw the Church authority out and say it’s better, you’ve got to come back to Peter and work on things in love and humility – however difficult a particular Peter may be.


  4. Crow says:

    Not too sure about find me in Florida (no thanks), but thank God for Archbishop Vigano,


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