Editor’s note: The following is a translation of an interview Archbishop Carlo Maria Viganò gave to Dr. Armando Manocchia for the Italian TV channel “Canale Italia,” April 2, 2022.
Dr. Armando Manocchia: Beginning with the Second Vatican Council (1962-1965), Masonic infiltrations within the Catholic Church have become increasingly substantial. Progressivism and relativism have been employed as weapons to undermine fidelity to Tradition. Did Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, who was excommunicated by John Paul II in 1988, therefore sense that Catholicism was on the brink of the abyss?
Archbishop Carlo Maria Viganò: Certainly. Archbishop Lefebvre was one of the few, very few prelates who wanted to denounce the conciliar revolution, understanding its subversive nature. And I say “who wanted” because many other prelates understood that a real revolution was underway. Some saw it as a danger, others saw it as a “springtime of the Church.” But among those who saw the danger, almost no one knew how to denounce it openly. Today we understand the historical merit of Archbishop Lefebvre in having rebelled against the line dictated by the conciliar politburo and having created the premises for a return of the Church to the doctrine and Holy Mass of all time.
Dr. Manocchia: Could the St. Gallen Mafia be considered as a sort of ecclesiastical World Economic Forum?
Archbishop Viganò: If we identify the World Economic Forum as a private lobby that has placed its followers in the most important posts of national and international public institutions in order to impose the globalist agenda against the will of the citizens, it is certainly fitting to see a parallel with the St. Gallen Mafia. In a similar way, this cabal of conspirators also placed its agents in the Roman Curia and in the peripheral organs of the Church, just as it imposed the conciliar agenda against the will of the faithful. But just as there is not only the World Economic Forum in the public sphere, so there is not only the St. Gallen Mafia in the ecclesiastical sphere.
We are facing a global coup that involves both civil society and the Church. Both are infiltrated and controlled by characters who use their power and the authority that derives from it, not for the purposes of the institutions they govern, but in order to destroy them. This crisis of authority must be denounced, because the action of those who have reached the highest levels of leadership both of nations and of the Church is a subversive and criminal act.
Dr. Manocchia: In his book Non è Francesco [He Is Not Francis], Antonio Socci argues that, from the point of view of canon law, the election of Francis to the papal throne did not take place in a regular manner and that the 2013 Conclave is illegitimate. What is your opinion on this?
Archbishop Viganò: The reconstructions of Antonio Socci follow the things that were let slip by Elisabetta Piqué, who is very close to Bergoglio, and Austin Ivereigh: they seem plausible, even if they are not supported by unequivocal evidence. But at the same time they have never been denied by the Holy See, and this has meant that speculations about the resignation of Benedict XVI and the maneuvers of the St. Gallen Mafia at the Conclave have multiplied, creating dismay, confusion and division among the faithful.
If we think of the Vatican’s interventions on countless issues, its silence on such an important issue is disconcerting. Even greater is the bewilderment at the silence of the Cardinals who participated in that Conclave. Some appeal to the pontifical secret, but in the face of a possible violation of the norms provided for by the Apostolic Constitution [Universi Dominici Gregis], which would render the election of the Pontiff invalid, there is no justification for this prolonged silence.
I know from a reliable source that when Cardinal Giovanni Battista Re – who as Vice Dean of the College of Cardinals presided over the 2013 Conclave – was questioned privately and asked which paragraph of the Apostolic Constitution Universi Dominici Gregis was the basis for the conclave proceeding to a third scrutiny on the evening of the election, he refused to answer, asserting in an emphatic and angry way that everything had taken place regularly.
Sooner or later, the truth will emerge and the very serious damage done to the Church will have to be denounced and repaired.
Dr. Manocchia: The [institutional] Catholic Church, which has for some time now been committed to ecumenism, and in line with the logic of approval advocated by the globalist oligarchies, seems today to aim at the creation of a single religion, a syncretism that mixes monotheistic doctrines and pagan beliefs, such as the Andean cult of the Pachamama: is this an act of homicide or is it rather a suicidal gesture?
Archbishop Viganò: Both. On the one hand, the corrupt part of the Hierarchy – which for the sake of brevity I call the deep church – since it is subservient to Satan, hates the Church as the Mystical Body of Christ and intends to kill Her, just as happened to the Church’s Head. But we know that just as Christ is risen, so His Mystical Body will also be resurrected after Her Passion. So yes: those who serve the devil carry out a murderous operation, however crazy and doomed to failure.
On the other hand, the healthy portion of the hierarchy is mostly composed of bishops and clerics who nevertheless accept the ideological premises of the present apostasy, since they accept the Council and the new liturgy that conveys its errors to the masses. They do not want the Church to succumb, but they are deluding themselves, against all the evidence and after sixty years of failure, by thinking that the Council has merely been misinterpreted, that the new Mass is celebrated badly but that we can return to a certain dignity in the liturgy, that ecumenism is good as long as it is only with the [Eastern] Orthodox but not with idolaters.
But if they are not convinced that the crisis began with Vatican II, if they do not understand that it was the Council that caused this disaster, and that to remedy it, it is necessary to return to the faith, morals and liturgy that existed before the Council, they are unwittingly part of the problem. They, although with the best intentions, represent that part of the moderates who, in the face of an attack on all fronts, if they do not fight, constitute an obstacle to the solution of the crisis. Their support for the Council and the secularized mentality of the deep church makes their gesture certainly suicidal.
Dr. Manocchia: Bergoglio has policed the most traditionalist orders: the Franciscans of the Immaculate, the Little Sisters of Mary Mother of the Redeemer. Is he perhaps allergic to authentic vocations or are the goods of these congregations tempting to someone?
Archbishop Viganò: At a time when the Church is suffering the drastic reduction in the offerings and donations made by the faithful due to the economic crisis caused by the psychopandemic, the closure of churches, and the disgust of many Catholics for the work of Bergoglio and the bishops, it is evident that gathering a little money and real estate is a convenient way to pad the disastrous Vatican coffers.
But the real reason, the one that motivates every action of the Bergoglian Church, is the relentless hatred for Tradition, of which the contemplative and conservative orders are an eloquent manifestation. Imagine the anger of these modernists who – at the same time that the most progressive communities are dying out and religious orders are disappearing in the crisis of vocations, and the loss of many who have abandoned religious life – witness monasteries and institutes flourish again in which there is discipline, fidelity to the rule of the founder, true poverty, penance, the spirit of recollection and the Tridentine Liturgy. All this makes their [the Bergoglian’s] failure evident and therefore it must be eliminated, so that it may not be seen that Tradition has a much greater following (and would have enormously more, if it were not systematically boycotted) than the post-conciliar religion with its priests without cassocks, its nuns without veils, its religious who do not pray, and its empty churches.
In Bergoglio’s mind, the only vocations that deserve his approval are those that are modernist, inclusive, aimed at the existential peripheries, and composed of doctrinal nothingness, moral emptiness, and trite humanitarian slogans. As soon as a vocation shows even vague signs of being genuinely Catholic and animated by the desire to give glory to God and save souls, it is attacked as being an expression of clericalism, intolerance, fundamentalism, rigidity … with all the Bergoglian repertoire of more or less offensive words that is one of the techniques used to criminalize the adversary, a method already successfully tested ever since the Council.
Dr. Manocchia: Pope Francis has praised multiculturalism, ecologism, and immigration, received Soros and Bill Gates at the Vatican, and played the role of the promoter of experimental gene serums. Could one hypothesize that there is a correlation between his work and his formation as a Jesuit?
Archbishop Viganò: If we were to limit ourselves to “hypothesizing” this correlation, we would show at least naivety and carelessness. The Society of Jesus, which was among the most important Orders in the Church, has been targeted by the action of the devil, who has corrupted its charism and has progressively diverted it well before Vatican II, and it is today the assault body, so to speak, with which the deep church demolishes what remains of the Catholic Church so as to replace it with an amorphous NGO that can act as a “container” of the Religion of Humanity desired by the Freemasons and the New World Order, consistent with the ideological foundations laid down by the Council.
Like every Jesuit, Bergoglio is first a Jesuit and then a Catholic. For this reason it is still forbidden for the Jesuits to ascend the ranks of the Hierarchy, which is why the Argentine had to ask the Pope for a dispensation to be consecrated Archbishop of Buenos Aires. If that dispensation had not been granted and instead the Rule of St. Ignatius had been respected, we would have been spared the disasters we have seen since 2013. It is evident that the Jesuits have played a prominent role not only in carrying out the conciliar revolution, but also in maneuvering to bring one of their own to the Throne of Peter.
Dr. Manocchia: In 2009, as Secretary of the Governorate, you restored the Vatican’s budget in a formidable way. In fact, it went from a deficit of 8 million euros to a surplus of over 34 million euros. In pursuing this line of transparency and fighting corruption, you apparently stepped on some toes. After that, coincidentally, they appointed you Apostolic Nuncio to the United States. Was it a case of, as the Latins used to say, “Promoveatur ut amoveatur” [Promote in order to remove]?
Archbishop Viganò: My appointment as Apostolic Nuncio to the United States was decided by the then all-powerful Secretary of State Cardinal Bertone. At the time I had been Secretary General of the Governorate since July 2009 and before that I had held the position of Delegate for the Pontifical Representations in the Secretariat of State. My tasks included preparing and examining the processes for promotion to the episcopate in the Roman Curia and in the Pontifical Representations.
In this role I had opposed the appointment of unworthy or homosexual prelates, and I had proposed, among other things, to remove McCarrick’s cardinal’s hat. This role of mine made me unpopular with my superiors and in particular with Bertone, who persuaded me to accept the transfer from the Secretariat of State to the Governorate, as Secretary General, with the promise of then promoting me to President in place of Cardinal Giovanni Lajolo when he retired. My work to fight against corruption and heal the disastrous finances of the Governorate was opposed by some, and beginning in 2010 there was a real “mobbing” [workplace bullying] against me, with the publication of slander and defamatory articles. The scandalous accusations, which originated in the Sacred Palaces, gave Bertone a pretext to remove me from that office. I therefore felt compelled to inform the Holy Father, so that he would know what was really happening.
Pope Benedict summoned me immediately, and before I could even mention the events with Bertone, he proposed to appoint me President of the Pontifical Council for Economic Affairs of the Holy See, in place of Cardinal Velasio de Paolis. And he did so with these precise words: “I am convinced that this is the task with which you can render the best service to the Holy See.”
It is not difficult to imagine what may have been the pressures, misinformation and slander against me that were presented to Pope Benedict, which prompted him to change his mind and appoint me Nuncio to the United States, an appointment that I accepted in a spirit of obedience, but not without suffering, well aware that it was a coup of the Curia that intended to nullify all the work of healing that I had carried out in the Governorate. The Holy Father wrote to me: “I find myself confirmed in the conviction that your providential position at this time is the Nunciature in the United States of America. On the other hand, I am sure that your knowledge of this great country will help you to take up the demanding challenge of this work, which in many ways appears to be decisive for the future of the universal Church.”
My official assignment in that immense and beloved nation has come to an end, but that challenge – to which Pope Benedict almost prophetically referred and in which he had involved me – is more open than ever.
Dr. Manocchia: Have your lucid, fiery and courageous interventions against the New World Order brought you unpleasant consequences, threats, media attacks?
Archbishop Viganò: Already after my revelations about the scandals of then Cardinal McCarrick, I had to take care of my safety. My statements about the pandemic farce, which I remember began in May 2020, at the time earned me insults and verbal lynchings, accusations of undue interference or that I was promoting conspiracy theories. There have also been those who have said that it was not I who wrote my statements; it was even insinuated that I was suffering from psychosis and “delirium of interpretation,” or even possessed by the devil. Not to mention the accusations following my pronouncement on the Russian-Ukrainian crisis, a few days ago…
I have been amazed that these often over-the-top attacks also come in part from circles of Catholic conservatism and the so-called political right. In many cases, those whom I would have considered as allies – in opposing first the pandemic farce and then the war provocation – have shown that they side with the adversary, to the point of recognizing the effectiveness and moral lawfulness of the so-called vaccines or presenting Zelenskyy as an innocent victim of Putin’s expansionist aims. The reality is quite different, and denying it or concealing it to support one’s own theses or to obey one’s masters will serve no purpose other than to make the condemnation of the guilty and their accomplices even more just and motivated.
In any case, I thank God and Our Lady that I am in good health, and for the protection they have granted me so far.
Dr. Manocchia: The Draghi government has taken advantage of the Ukrainian issue to extend the emergency until December 31, 2022. What are your predictions about the political, economic and social future of Italy?
Archbishop Viganò: I do not know if the emergency of the Civil Protection can be considered an extension of the pandemic emergency, which moreover has been declared illegitimate and unconstitutional by a recent sentence of the court of Pisa. What is very clear, if there were ever any doubts, is that Draghi responds to supranational powers like many other exponents of his government and of the highest Italian institutions, with the support of almost all of Parliament. As a member of these lobbies, he is tasked with implementing the globalist agenda even if it runs counter to national interests and the good of citizens. Indeed, the agenda consists precisely in the destruction of the social, economic, religious and cultural fabric of Italy, to implement that Great Reset, whose creator and promoter Klaus Schwab recently met with Draghi.
I dare not make predictions, because the situation is extremely uncertain and full of unknowns. In the plans of the New World Order, Italy should succumb, be invaded by millions of immigrants, lose its Catholic identity, erase its traditions, and be sold off to foreign multinationals. They want us to be slaves with a universal income after having expropriated everything, with services and public goods privatized, authorized only to travel in ways that they decide are allowed, controlled in our every action, and monitored by the perpetual green pass, which they will call a digital ID or some another tempting euphemism. This is what they would like to do.
But they do not take into account that they are subservient to the eternal Loser, and that Divine providence could decide to spare our homeland from destruction, if only the Italian people will understand that the present evils are the consequence of our sins, of the public sins of the nation, of all nations; a punishment for having denied our faith, the soul of our Italy, for having wrested from Christ His Crown as universal King, and therefore also true King of our nation.
The Lord will help us with His Grace, but He asks us to do our part. If we fight with Christ, with Christ we will celebrate victory. If we continue not to take sides or worse we side with Satan, with Satan we will have fallen into the abyss.
Dr. Manocchia: Would you be willing to found a sort of new Holy Alliance among all the dissident European forces, to join together in opposing the diabolical techno-health totalitarianism that oppresses us?
Archbishop Viganò: Recently I initiated an appeal for the creation of an Anti-Globalist Alliance, which can coordinate the opposition of the good forces of the different nations against the coup of the elite. But this Alliance must be an initiative of the laity, just as lay people must give, both as Christians and as citizens, a public witness to their Faith and engage in politics. Let us not forget that when the Lord admonished us “Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to God what is God’s” (Mt 22:21), He exhorted us not only to pay taxes, but also to fulfill our duty towards our homeland, especially when it is endangered by those who have as their final goal the destruction of traditional Christian society through an unquenchable hatred against Jesus Christ.
But while the enemy explained to us in detail what he wanted to do in order to “reset” the world, starting with the decimation of the world population through contraception, abortion and homosexuality, epidemics and vaccines, on the other hand the “good guys” seemed intimidated by “progress” and were ashamed to oppose these criminal projects with an uncompromising social and political proposal.
While the conspirators trained their future leaders at the Davos Forum and put them at the top of nations and international institutions – indeed, practically all those in power today, from Macron to Trudeau, from Merkel to Zelensky – what did those who cared about the sovereignty of the state, the protection of life and the traditional family, and the defense of religion and morals do?
They did nothing. No training, no investment in the future ruling classes, no academic formation of Catholic leaders according to non-negotiable principles. Indeed, on closer inspection the betrayal of the clergy in this field has been revealing, because alongside the work of the deep state in the civil field and indeed almost in order to create its ideological and social basis, the deep church has sold itself to the demands of the Left. It has preferred ecumenical dialogue to preaching and conversion of souls; it accepted the revolutionary principles of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, and it was the first to wrest Christ’s Royal Crown from Him, becoming the apostle of the secularity of the State.
Today, with Bergoglio, the betrayal has been consummated in an apostasy, with support for globalist ideology, migrationism, neo-Malthusianism, the New World Order, and the Religion of Humanity. The deep church has even been complicit in the pandemic fraud and mass vaccination, despite the presence of abortive cell lines in serums and the irreversible weakening of the immune system it causes; today it hypocritically stands at the side of the system, supporting Schwab’s puppet Zelensky in Ukraine against President Putin, who is the only head of state who opposes globalization and the criminal principles that inspire it.
To return to Italy, in my opinion we need two things, to try to get out of this crisis.
The first, and most important, is the formation of ruling classes and true political leaders who want to commit themselves to good governance, applying the Gospel in the social realm. This obviously presupposes that there are Catholics willing to return to the integrity of faith and morals, without compromise and with the boldness of courageous witness.
The second is the formation of a coalition that unites the parties and movements that share the program of the Anti-Globalist Alliance, also rediscovering the sovereignist, federalist and moderately liberal vocation that the center-right parties have denied in recent years. In short, to combine previous experience (noting the mistakes made so as not to repeat them) with the new movements that are being born. I think that this idea could also be replicated in other nations, which would thus be able to present a common front against the globalist Leviathan.