The Catholic Church’s priest shortage crisis: a self-inflicted wound

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By Anthony Esolen on Life Site News

[…]

The Catholic Church is in dire need of priests. She had plenty of priests before the onset of liturgical abuses not sanctioned by the Second Vatican Council’s Sacrosanctum Concilium. Mathematician and computer programmer David Sonnier has plotted out the precipitous decline in vocations after the Council, illustrating it by an asymptotic curve he calls, with mordant irony, the Springtime Decay Function, whereby he concludes that we are missing more than 300,000 priests who otherwise might have been ministering to the people of God today. He shows his students the data, telling them that it marks enrollment at a college, and he asks them to guess what happened. They reply in one way or another that the college in question must have made a dreadfully bad decision in 1965.

“Did they get rid of football?” asked one of the students.

The answer to that is yes, they did “get rid of football.” Nowhere in Sacrosanctum Concilium or in other documents of Vatican II, as Professor Sonnier observes, are the following liturgical innovations mandated or recommended or even suggested:

* orientation ad populum
* Communion in both species
* Communion received in the hand
* Communion received while standing, as at a delicatessen
* removal of altar rails
* prohibition of Masses said according to the 1962 missal
* exclusive use of the vernacular
* girls serving at the altar

Instead, Sacrosanctum Concilium forbids innovations in the liturgy, “unless the good of the Church genuinely and certainly requires them; and care must be taken that any new forms adopted should in some way grow organically from forms already existing” (SC, 23). Not one of those innovations above can pass that severe test, and, as Sonnier notes, several of them had already been condemned.

Sonnier understands that correlation and causation are not the same; though it defies all reason to suppose that a decline so sudden and so calamitous was strictly coincidental. One way to show that it was not coincidental – that the foot’s agony had something to do with the shotgun and the trigger – would be to go to those dioceses and communities that did not pull the trigger, and to see whether they are walking about hale and hearty and on two feet. And so they are: Lincoln, Nebraska; Arlington, Virginia; Ciudad del Este, Paraguay; the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate; the Priestly Fraternity of Saint Peter.

But when I said that “they got rid of football,” I meant it. Apart from the dubious orthodoxy or the dubious theology behind those innovations in liturgy and then in preaching, there were all the reasons in the world to suppose, from what we know about human beings in general and boys and men in particular, that the changes would be calamitous.

Think. Open your eyes. Remember a little history. Men fight. Many of them really enjoy fighting with their fists, but many more enjoy the spirit of intellectual or spiritual combat for something to which they will devote their goods, their lives, and their sacred honor. So what have we done?

We have eliminated from most hymnals every single song that had anything to do with fighting the good fight. A boy may attend Mass for ten years and never hear one hymn that calls him to the soldiership of Christ.

Men are gamblers, for good and bad. Many of them court risk. They are the inventors of backgammon, cribbage, poker, “fantasy sports,” billiards, and chess. They are the ones who will risk ruining themselves for an idea or an invention. So what have we done?

We have lowered the stakes. If everyone is saved – though our Lord clearly warns us against that sluggish sureness – then why sweat? Where’s the adventure? No real boy says, “I want to grow up to be a fat bishop sitting in the chancery while the real world goes on its merry way,” or, “I want to grow up to be a man without a wife and children, who spends his days being nice.” Is that it?

Men thrive in brotherhoods. Not peoplehoods, but specifically brotherhoods. See Tom Sawyer, Gilgamesh, the Germanic comitatus, the Japanese samurai, the monks of Saint Benedict, the fishermen of Newfoundland, the Plains Indians, the cristeros of Mexico, and, in a human sense, the apostles of our Lord Himself. So what have we done?

mass-sacrificeWe have obliterated the brotherhoods. We got rid of most of our high schools for boys. We got rid of every one of our colleges for young men. We dissolved the brotherhood of acolytes – the altar boys. We did this at the worst imaginable time, just when everybody else was doing the same thing, so that now in most places CYO Basketball is but a memory, Boys’ Clubs are Boys’ and Girls’ Clubs, which means Safe Small Children’s Clubs, and the Boy Scouts have been sued clear to the precincts of Sodom.

Men understand authority and flourish in it. If you doubt this, you have never come near the locker room of a football team, nor have you troubled to consider whether that team could run a single play, let alone win a game, without strict adherence to a chain of command established for the common good. “I am a man under authority,” said the centurion to Jesus. He did not say, “I insist upon equality.” Men are the ones who invented orders. Lord Baden-Powell, the founder of the Scouts, understood the principle. What have we done?

We have obliterated distinctions between the clergy and the laity. We have turned a suspicious eye against the fundamental virtue of obedience, instead teaching that every man may do what appears right to him in his own mind.

Men are inspired by discipline. They are the ones who invented Boot Camp – and are disappointed now to find that it isn’t any longer any great deal, not if you’ve been a wrestler or a football player in high school. Find out what the boy in the American prairies underwent to prove himself a man. What have we done?

We have eliminated almost every strenuous practice of self-denial from the common life of the Church. All we say is that if you are chewing gum during Mass, please to move it to the left side of your jaws so as to clear a space on the right to receive the Lord at Communion.

No ascetic life, no hierarchy, no brotherhood, no risk, no battle – no priests. And then there are the supernatural concerns, about which I will have more to say next time.

See also Father Z’s emphasis and comments on this post and take part in his poll about keeping the sanctuary ‘male’.

 

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32 Responses to The Catholic Church’s priest shortage crisis: a self-inflicted wound

  1. sixupman says:

    In my (UK) diocese an excuse for ‘Trojan Horse’ Permanent Deacons [proto-married clergy] and lay parish management.

  2. toadspittle says:

    “Find out what the boy in the American prairies underwent to prove himself a man. “
    Shooting Red Indians? A man’s gotta do, what a man’s gotta do,, etc.
    High-minded and noble philosophy there.

    ….But seriously, a very thought-provoking essay. Much sense in it. Gotta have authority, or the jig’s up.
    As I used to tell my staff, “My idea of democracy is you lot democratically agreeing to do whatever I tell you.”

  3. Anthony Esolen describes the current situation and the current predicament perfectly. All of it can and will be corrected, but it’s going to take a long time. It’s taken five decades for the Church to degenerate into what it is now. It won’t be rebuilt overnight.

  4. Robert says:

    See the parlous State of the Church is a good start. Nothing is to be gained by pretense. Fatima requires that we in Holy Charity respond to the massive Loss of souls in Eternity that is the inevitable consequence of the State of the Church! You do not need to believe me rather read the following an interview with Lucia in 1954 not 2016!

    “..
    The following is a rare interview with Sister Lucia [the Fatima visionary who died in
    2005], by Father Lombardi. It was recorded in the Vatican weekly “Osservatore della
    Domenica” February 7, 1954.
    Fr. Lombardi: “Tell me, is the ‘Better World Movement’ a response of the Church to the
    words spoken to Our Lady?”
    Lucia: “Father, there is certainly a great need for this renewal. If it is not done, and taking
    into account the present development of humanity, only a limited number of the human
    race will be saved.”
    Fr. Lombardi: “Do you really believe that many will go to Hell? I hope that God will save
    the greater part of humanity.” [He had just written a book entitled: Salvation for Those
    Without Faith]
    Lucia: “Father, many will be lost.”
    Fr. Lombardi: “It is true that the world is full of evil, but there is always a hope of
    salvation.”
    Lucia: “No Father, many will be lost.”
    Father Lombardi remembered that Lucia had seen Hell and added: “Her words disturbed
    me. I returned to Italy with that grave warning impressed on my heart.”
    ..”

    The Three Children were shown HELL

  5. kathleen says:

    The reasons for the shortage of priests in the Church these days are so clear, aren’t they? And it doesn’t take much out of one to see that where tradition and true Catholicism is strongest, vocations are forthcoming; whilst where the novelties and banalities of liberalism abound, vocations have all but dried up.
    2 + 2 = 4.
    So why all the ‘shifting of deck chairs on the Titanic’ on the part of liberals and modernist catholics – oops, er, Catholics – to look for solutions elsewhere, instead of facing up to facts?

    Why should any good, orthodox, young Catholic man want to give his manhood, his whole life, to a feminised, watered-down version (which is what we have in many places these days) of the once manly Catholic Priesthood? Anthony Esolen does a good job of pointing out many of the reasons why he would not want to, but I think there are more. (Btw, some of these are mentioned in comments after the article on Fr Z’s blog.)

    The courageous holy priests we do still have among us are true heroes – and surely greatly loved by God for all their bitter daily suffering. Good priests today are carrying a very heavy cross and undergoing a very hard time to uphold the whole unadulterated Truth amid much criticism from the liberals and their ‘Church of Laodicea‘ version, not the real One Holy Catholic Church.

  6. Another thought just occurred to me: could it be that many Catholics are not particularly bothered by the shortage of men wanting to enter the priesthood? Perhaps they actually prefer a feminized, even womanized priesthood. It may be that that is what their efforts are directed toward, consciously or unconsciously. The idea that such a priesthood can wreck the Church – except for Christ’s promise that nothing can wreck or destroy the Church – is probably the furthest thing from the minds of these Catholics, benighted as they are.

  7. Michael says:

    Another good article by Anthony Esolen here, which whilst not on the same topic, is certainly not unrelated, given that it takes a look at the same currents of cultural degradation which have slowly infected the Church:

    http://www.theimaginativeconservative.org/2016/03/how-would-our-ancestors-view-the-21st-century.html

  8. toadspittle says:

    “Men are gamblers, for good and bad. Many of them court risk. “
    …True.
    I’ve gambled all my life and have won – and lost – thousands of euros on the turn of a card, or a horse’s ability to run.
    Doesn’t matter, ultimately. Taking chances has, so far at least, stood me in reasonably good stead.
    And I still bet on practically anything (always providing the odds look to be in my favour) – and I always will.
    And I think it would be a good idea if we all gambled considerably more frequently than we do, because, at some stage in our wretched lives – each and every one of us will be forced by circumstances to gamble on something vital.
    And if we aren’t already used to doing so – we will almost certainly lose.

    In short – I agree with Esolen, here. Sort of.

  9. TerryC says:

    I believe that it is absolutely true that the priest crisis was manufactured by dissidents who gain control of many of the seminaries and diocesan staffs in the post councilor period. Many good men who should have become priest were deliberately excluded from or expelled from the seminary because they would have been faithful priest. This was done with the specific goal of creating an environment where the only option would be to allow the ordination of married men and women. (The first being possible, the second not.) Once the general prohibition of married priests was lifted I am sure the plan was to get the Church to reinstate the many dissident priest who had left the priesthood to marry (i.e. broke their vows) in that same period, resulting in a generally more heterodox clergy.

  10. Robert says:

    Simply look at Portugal in 1910 and that State Church separation. The State determines Human Rights sic European Central Court and for instance Gay Marriage. The State also sets Education standards and subjects (Evolution and Naturalist Science) . The State therefor is free to determine Morals and Laws.
    In other words a generation brainwashed into a agnostic paganism and a Media pumping out human rights , birth control, star idolatry, materialism etc. etc. What Vocations are likely from a generation that denies the Bible? teaches beastility with sexuality. In other words a world of the flesh pots of Egypt. Modern Babel and Sodom . Is this the cradle for Vocations?
    The only real question is when, not if, Heaven will Act?

  11. toadspittle says:

    “The State also sets Education standards and subjects (Evolution and Naturalist Science) . The State therefor is free to determine Morals and Laws.”
    Of course it is. That’s The State’s job. What else should determine the laws? The State is wise to leave “Morals” for each individual to determine, wherever possible.
    Of course The State teaches evolution (except in a few idiot parts of the US) Because evolution is an unvarnished fact. Everyone, except a handful of raving loonies, knows this. Just look at cars. Or dogs. Or computers. Or The Catholic Church. Or the cinema. Or Australasia. And what the heck is “Naturalist” science?

    “The State also sets Education standards and subjects.”
    Yes, and it’s clearly not doing a sound enough job, as far as some people are concerned.

    (Don’t know if you will ever get to read this comment, Tom.
    The scoundrels are censoring the very ordure out of Toad these days.
    Wasn’t always like this. When people, like Raven for example, were still alive)

  12. Robert says:

    Toad at least you are honest.
    Naturalism is a physical system that is self generating and doesn’t require a Creator,
    “..The State is wise to leave “Morals” for each individual to determine, wherever possible.(which of course accords perfectly with Evolution) ..” Beastility is acceptable behaviour for beasts (animals).

    The basis of Evolution is Geology and the assumptions that it makes with respect to sedimentation and erosion. The problem is however that fossils for instance are evidence of catastrophic sudden change. A carcase left in the open tend to be ripped apart and scattered by scavangers and predators. Fossils are caused through catastrophic events and not erosion and sedimentation. There are mountains where the oldest rocks are on top of the younger rocks! Periodic comets have a very short Life because the Sun burns them up over time. Its a few thousand years!

    Marxism and Fascism both identify social Evolution. Evolution of course provides a mechanism for biological change to CREATE better organisms including designer babies and crops. Science distracts and is like a carrot dangling before Man. So much promise of a Earthly Paradise, provided we practice Eugenics and control population! Now science is cited as the cause of globally warming!

    Against this and in a Portugal that had thrown of the Church by a revolt in 1910 (Freemasons). Heaven took three children and taught them of Heaven, Hell and Purgatory. The Rosary and the Eucharist AND THE SUN DANCED. For a State to opposes the Creator is folly and suicide.

    The Faith is very clear Creator. God the Creator of Heaven and Earth of all things visible and invisible. That is the Catholic Faith and the evidence of the Power of the Creator is the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass when bread and wine are changed into the Body Blood Soul and Divinity int the hands of the priest.

    With each Mass and communion then we are given the Sinless (that’s Adam before the Fall) flesh and blood of Our Lord.

  13. Robert says:

    This year Good Friday is 25 March (that the Birth of the Church on Calvary). That is of course exactly nine months before 25 December the Birth of Our Lord.
    On Calvary we find a Tree (wooden Cross ) the two Sinless ones the New Adam and the New Eve. Also a priest (St John the Celibrate Virgin Evangelist).
    Aquinas gave a series of sermons on the Creed , the Our Father and the Hail Mary. Aquinas shows how the Fathers of the Church expressly ensured that Faith in the Creator was unambiguiously in the Creed. Aquinas proves the Creator.
    The unspoken but tacit denial of Creation is a cancer at the Heart of the Faith.

  14. toadspittle says:

    “The basis of Evolution is Geology “
    No it’snot. It’s biology.
    Yes it took a long time. Doesn’t make it geology., though.

    “Toad at least you are honest.”
    Course I am. Toad never lies. Well, hardly ever.

    ….And only then when it’s necessary.

    “Beastility is acceptable behaviour for beasts (animals).”
    No, it’s not. Beasts don’t commit bestiality. Only humans do.
    I love you, Roger.
    But then, I must.

  15. Robert says:

    “..Charles Lyell’s recently published “Principles of Geology” (first edition 1830-1832). Darwin will became strongly influenced by the “slow occurring” geology as proposed by Lyell. He observed at his first stop of the Beagle on the Cape Verde Islands (January 16, 1832 to February 8,) sediments enclosed by lava flows and raised above the sea level, but with fossils similar to the shells in the sea nearby (implying no substantial change of the environment over time). He applied the principles formulated by Lyell and became convinced that the surface of earth changes over time only slowly and gradually, ..”
    Darwin tells you himself where the timescales are derived from sedimentation and erosion “.. over time only slowly and gradually..”
    And yes geology because Darwin theory requires that the inorganic become organic!

    Toad how can a human (beast) not commit beasitility?

    But the what is Truth (this was Pilates question).
    Man after Adam’s Fall was born spiritual Blind . Adams Sin is removed by Baptism. But as a Man grows he learns about the world about him that is the good and the bad. Because there is so much Sin in the world he soaks up more bad than good. He learns about the society that he lives in BUT NOT of the God who Created it. Man sees perfectly in worldiness, and the swallows the answers that he seeks. However spirituality is different from worldliness. Man actually begiuns to see spirituality as tricks of the imagination. The knowledge that the world gives makes a man hard hearted towards God. You cannot see spiritually because you are seduced by this worldliness.
    The Kingdom of God is beyond those who are ensnared with this worldliness. The Children of Fatima’s spirituality was and is superior to this Naturalist worldiness. Why do you think the saints preached the World, The Flesh and the Devil?

    Toad you question the science of the Saints! The more this world Sins the greater it becomes ensnared in Sin.
    God the Creator. Our Heaven Father not the Father of Lies.

  16. toadspittle says:

    “Toad how can a human (beast) not commit beasitility?”
    I suggest self-control, Robert. Works for me, anyway.

    “Toad you question the science of the Saints!”
    Well, I very likely might – if I had the faintest idea what it was.

    “He (Man) learns about the society that he lives in BUT NOT of the God who Created it.”
    …And whose fault is that?

  17. toadspittle says:

    “And yes geology because Darwin theory requires that the inorganic become organic!”
    No, it doesn’t, Toger. That’s just how you interpret it.
    Darwin’s Theory is called the “Theory of Natural Selection.” And Darwin doesn’t speculate on how the process begins. Maybe God started it all, anyway. Darwin doesn’t know. And what does it matter? The fact is, to take just one example, Australia was “cut off” from the rest of the world for millions of years, the result was kangaroos, rather than deer or horses – and koala bears, but not one monkey. And plants that didn’t exist elsewhere, like eucalyptus.
    Doesn’t any of that make sense to you?

  18. Robert says:

    No Toad. Read the science, The theory of Evolution and the Big Bang produces inorganic material. If you are interested there is a significance difference between the organic and inorganic versions of the same chemicals. So when or how did the inorganic become organic? Understand the Naturalist argument is that of a finite amount of material which started out as pretty simply basic inorganic chemicals.

    Toad who said that Australia was cut of for millions of years? Actually if you are interested the speculation is where the Water on Earth came from! The theory is from Comets! Remember that catastrophes are anathema to Darwins Theory. So where did this surplus water in the solar system come from? What about the Sphinx and the evidence of substantial water erosion? How did the Sphinx end up in a desert? I mean did Apes build the Sphinx?

    Incidently science speculation is that a comet was the cause of Dead Sea and destruction of Sodom. Note Lots wife and the pillar of salt! Salienity points to comets.

    Geology is the foundation of Darwins theory and the calculation of eons of timescales are as I pointed out observed current rates of erosion and sedimentation.

    You know the Free Masons grand Architect is Naturalism, which iiself is pagan atheism.

    Look at the Universe there are more stars in Our Galaxy than there have every been humans! There are more Galaxies than stars in Our Galaxy. A Universe clearly teaming with Life because this is what a Creator does Creates Life and Light.

    What nobody mentions is that there is no evidence for species jump! The species all appeared at the same time. Variations in species are no different that variations within families where no two children are alike. Each and every Creation of God is unique.

    Enough of this worldiness because all of this will end in dust and ashes!

    What makes sense to me is the science of the saints. Becoming Christ like and an Eternity in my Fathers Kingdom in my Resurrected Body (Our Lords Resurrection proves the Resurrection of the Dead) with my senses, no sin, no corruption, no separation from those I Love,
    I strongly suggest that you start to develop a Life of genuine prayer and penance. Your wordliness is preventing you from developing your spirituality.

    This worldiness and knowledge is the road to Hell.

  19. Robert says:

    The starting point or the science of the saints is the Fall of Adam and Eve and the Love of the Father who sent His only begotten Son to redeem fallen Man.

    Genesis shows Cain and his descedents becoming sated in worldliness where as Seth and his turn to God. Enoch never died (Enoch knew Adam). Enoch was taken up as was Elias. Remember that Elias and Moses appeared with Our Lord at the Transfiguration.

    Enoch is mentioned in Genesis and the New Testament Hebrews 11:5.

    The science of the saints? Shame on you Toad this was taught to the three children at Fatima. Remember Heaven put these three children and their spiritual knowledge against that Masonic Portuguese Republic of 1910. The science of the saints won the Day!

  20. toadspittle says:

    “Toad who said that Australia was cut off for millions of years?”
    Just about every sane person in the world, Roger. (I called you “Toger” by mistake last time. Sorry. Freudian, I expect.)

    “Remember that catastrophes are anathema to Darwin’s Theory. “
    Where do you get these crazy ideas? Why? Maybe a catastrophe wiped out the dinosaurs. Maybe not. Doesn’t affect Natural Selection one iota. And life is nothing but catastrophes, is it?. Earthquakes, floods, volcanoes, leprosy, Mel Gibson movies? Same as it was in Darwin’s day.
    (Apart from the movies, of course.)

    “I strongly suggest that you start to develop a Life of genuine prayer and penance. Your wordliness is preventing you from developing your spirituality.”
    And I’d strongly suggest you that you know absolutely nothing of my life of spirituality, and “worldliness,” or how genuine my prayer and penance is- and that you are an ignorant, arrogant, priggish, pillock – Except that I know that you really aren’t, and that you really mean well, Roger.
    And I love you. As I must.
    …Although, I also suggest your unworldliness is preventing you from appreciating just about everything halfway reasonable on this wicked old planet.

  21. Robert says:

    Our Lord’s contempt for Earthly things! Christ the Man despised all earthly things in order to teach us to despise them! (Augustine commenting on Heb 12:2)
    That is the science of the saints.

    Your spiritual Life is simply proven by your reference to materialism and human reasoning
    “..Just look at cars. Or dogs. Or computers. Or The Catholic Church. Or the cinema. Or Australasia..” All Created and will return to Dust! Man cannot CREATE out of Nothing. Man can make out of existing materials but not Create. The Church is the mystical Body of Christ, it is NOT the material and external perceived by Man.

    Wisdom is to see through and despise this worldiness and instead store of the things of Heaven that are eternal. Free Masonry is just another version of a Kingdom on Earth without God? But this world is the slave of Original Sin and as such under Satan’s domain. Sin is Eternal Death, Darkness and Hell.

    My Love for you Toad is for your Eternal Soul and that you can throw off this worldiness and see it for what it really is, You came naked into this world and will leave it naked!
    100 years of Satan has seduced into denying its Creator!

  22. toadspittle says:

    “Our Lord’s contempt for Earthly things! Christ the Man despised all earthly things in order to teach us to despise them! (Augustine commenting on Heb 12:2)
    That is the science of the saints.”

    If you despise all earthly things, Robert, (which, I suspect, Christ the Man did not – look at the marriage of Cana – He seemed to have a good old time there keeping the vats topped up, didn’t He?) – then all earthly things might well consider it reasonable to despise you.
    Not that you would care all that much, I suppose.
    And..if God does despise all worldly things, He might well have thought of that before creating them in the first place. Or so it seems to me.

  23. toadspittle says:

    [A moderator: all quite unnecessary, Toad]

  24. Robert says:

    Toad this world is a Fallen world, in other words a place of proving, it isn’t Paradise. Satan and his minions would have you think that through human Rationalism that a human Paradise would Evolve
    Our Lord opened the door to Heaven for an Eternity, and you are complaining and voicing exactly the same criticism of the Jews. They wanted a Earthly Kingdom and when offered a Heavenly one crucified the Messiah. A Man who can raise the dead, turn water into wine, calm instantly a raging sea, drive the demons out of the possessed, feed 5000 from a few fishes and a loaf of bread, heal the deaf, forgive the poor sinners, give sight to the blind. What can this world offer Him Toad.
    No despise this world doesn’t me not to Love Creation and poor sinners it means that the Earth is the Lords and NOT that off the greedy and self centred.
    Your thoughts reveal your heart which is entrenched in human worldly rationalism. Look at what Our Lord told the rich man who wanted to follow him!
    Now you have the yardstick for measuring the direction of the masonic vipers who have made a nest in Rome! Tacit approval of Evolution which calls the Holy Ghost a Liar and corals the sheep in Satan’s fold!
    Now ask whether a Rational worldly priesthood finds favour with God? I am certain that a priesthood that denied this world and sought first the Kingdom of Heaven would be Blessed with fecundity!

  25. toadspittle says:

    “Tacit approval of Evolution which calls the Holy Ghost a Liar and corals the sheep in Satan’s fold!”
    No it doesn’t. Evolution hasn’t a bad word to say about The Holy Ghost. Nor do I.
    Nor do I “tacitly approve” of evolution, any more than I “tacitly approve” of The Eiffel Tower, or The Mountains of Mourne. They are simply glaring facts. (You might also look up the definition of “tacit.”)

    Anyway…look here, Rosbert; It’s time we faced a few glaring facts ourselves. You and I don’t see eye-to-eye on hardly nuffink. So, I think we’d better scrap the idea of our going on holiday together in Torremolinos.
    Because otherwise, there will be tears before bedtime. Big time.

  26. Robert says:

    No Toad, Grace at meals thanks God for the Fruits of His Creation. Every fibre of every pray of every sacrament has Creator.
    Our Lord thanked his Father for hiding the Truths of His Kingdom from the Wise and Prudent and revealing to them to the poor and humble. That was exactly what happened at Fatima.
    It isn’t a question of not agreeing its the Faith, like it or not, Go sell all that you have and follow Me! that is Heavens message to a materialist generation that doesn’t believe in a Creator.
    He made ALL things out of Nothing. You forget the punishment of Babel when the Nations came into being (a new Creation).

  27. toadspittle says:

    “Go sell all that you have and follow Me! “
    Not an instruction many people on CP&S (or Toad.) will cheerfully obey.
    You, no doubt, have already done so – eh, Robert?
    Although, as with other of Christ’s admonitions, like, “…turn the other cheek,” it is open to considerable interpretation.
    “Our Lord thanked his Father for hiding the Truths of His Kingdom from the Wise and Prudent and revealing to them to the poor and humble.”
    Why is it not possible to be all four: wise, prudent, poor, and humble? What’s wrong with being wise and prudent, anyway? I wish I was.

  28. toadspittle says:

    “Go sell all that you have and follow Me! “
    If all Catholics did that – the entire religion would die out within a generation. No schools. No home life. No more families.
    Or is there another way of reading this – such as not taking it literally?
    Doesn’t Christ also tell us to hate everyone else, family included – except God? Surely not?

  29. Robert says:

    Latest science IF interested is that with discovered planets around other suns evidence of planets moving (changing their orbits).
    Its pretty obvious that you can’t date Earth without a history of the solar system. Also you can’t date the solar system without a history of the Galaxy.
    You mentioned (foolishly) Cana.
    Cana and the Water changed into Wine.
    Now in your folly you have not considered the full imprications of this.
    The Wine Created by Our Lord HAD A HISTORY. The History imprinted in that wine encompassed the vines, weather, soil conditions. fermentation of grapes (that formed the Wine). Notice water isn’t organic!
    Now Our Lord miracle changed the inorganic water into a wine (formed from organic source).
    Cana also goes very very deep because it points to Melchisdeek the Eternal High Priest and his bread and wine. In other words Our Lords offering at the Marriage at Cana is Wine (the best wine saved till last) We will later see an incredible transformation of wine (formed from organic material) into the Body Blood Soul and Divinity of Christ.
    It is Lourdes that stands visible against Darwin. Our Lady told St Bernadette to wash her face. St Bernadette smeared her face with the mud (from the created spring). That is the sight of Adam and the Earth he was created from. The significance of this is that Lourdes concurs with Darwin.
    As with Fatima so with Lourdes the Wise and Prudent are shown as blind and the simply and humble chosen by God!
    Priests called by Christ out of the world to serve God. The vipers of Rome (masonry which is cursed by God!) . Why would Heaven place priests under Free Masons (who are excommunicated?)
    Throw out the Masons the vocations will be resolved.

  30. toadspittle says:

    “Its pretty obvious that you can’t date Earth without a history of the solar system. “
    Naturally. Nevertheless, the universe has been dated as 13.8 billion years. I suspect it’s nearer 13.9, myself.But then I’m not an expert in these matters. Like you, Robot.

    Anyway, slightly more recently Christ is reputed to have said, , “Go sell all that you have and follow Me! “
    Have you done that – or have you not, Rebort? “All that you have” …Including all your Hobbit videos, the complete works of C.S. Lewis, and the computer on which you write so wonderfully to me?

  31. Robert says:

    Yawn
    Fatima expressly answered the Science of the Enlightenment (wise and prudent) and its foolish assumptions and question over Creation
    “Our Lord thanked his Father for hiding the Truths of His Kingdom from the Wise and Prudent and revealing to them to the poor and humble.”

    The Children (poor and humble) were shown Hell and taught about Purgatory and the promise of Heaven.

    Hell is inhabited by the fallen angels and those Man (that’s both genders) who of their own free will rejected Heaven.

    You understand that after the Resurrection of the Dead Man will be united for eternity with their physical bodies either in Heaven or in Hell.

    No mention of Apes Toad!
    Souls of Men suffering in Eternity.

    No mention of years speculative or uncertainity of timescales ETERNITY.

  32. GC says:

    TerryC @ March 9, 2016 at 19:31

    Many good men who should have become priest were deliberately excluded from or expelled from the seminary because they would have been faithful priest. This was done with the specific goal of creating an environment where the only option would be to allow the ordination of married men and women.

    TerryC, what you say had long been my strong impression with respect to liberal modernist dioceses and orders.

    I’m not aware of any bishops or leaders of religious orders actually coming out and saying this, though others may be. The only very near case I know of is of the deposed bishop (deposed 2011) of the diocese of Toowoomba (!) in the state of Queensland, Australia. (Although Toowoomba sounds a bit like “Woop Woop West”, I hear it is a rather pleasant rural city and the centre of a very large, geographically speaking, diocese.)

    In a “pastoral letter” in Advent 2006, though the bishop didn’t actually assert it, he nevertheless said this:

    Given our deeply held belief in the primacy of the Eucharist for the identity, continuity and life of each parish community, we may well need to be much more open towards other options for ensuring that the Eucharist may be celebrated. Several responses have been discussed internationally, nationally and locally:

    – ordaining married, single or widowed men who are chosen and endorsed by their local parish community

    – welcoming former priests, married or single, back to active ministry

    – ordaining women, married or single

    – recognising Anglican, Lutheran or Uniting Church Orders

    I think we are on the right track, somehow, Terry. The fall in priestly vocations was part of a strategy. (Let us forbear from calling it a “ruse”.)

    Please see the Australian blogger Vexilla Regis for further observations.

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