Babies were aborted alive, placed in fridge to harvest cell lines used in some vaccines: researcher

‘These babies were literally placed into the fridge alive and then stored between one and 24 hours until they could be dismembered.’

February 19, 2021, LifeSiteNews:

Cell lines derived from aborted babies used in the production or testing of various vaccines, including a number of COVID vaccines, most likely came from babies who were aborted alive, and according to the general practice as outlined in medical literature, may have been placed in a fridge while still living where they awaited dismemberment before having their organs harvested, a researcher has found. 

Biologist Pamela Acker, who has a master’s degree in Biology from the Catholic University of America and who recently authored a book titled Vaccination: A Catholic Perspective, related what the literature says about how babies were aborted to obtain cell lines used in a number of vaccines.

“A number of these abortions that were done in that way were termed ‘abdominal hysterectomies’ in the medical literature. So in some cases, the women were actually being sterilized in the process as well,” she said. 

“They had to maintain a sterile environment because you don’t want any contamination of the tissue with any kind of foreign agents, any bacteria, or viruses, or anything like that. The babies were — and, in some cases, the uterus as well — removed from the woman and, without even puncturing the amniotic sac, placed directly into the refrigerator where it was kept for no more than 24 hours.”

“So these babies were literally placed into the fridge alive and then stored between one and 24 hours until they could be dismembered, basically. And this is right there in the scientific literature,” she said.

Acker made these comments during her Feb. 19 presentation at an online conference hosted by LifeSiteNews titled “Unmasking COVID-19: Vaccines, Mandates, and Global Health.”

Moral conflict

Acker spent about nine months in a lab a decade ago working on a project to develop an HIV vaccine with a grant provided by The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. It was when her team decided to use HEK-293 cells for the project that she began to question her involvement. 

“At this point, most people have heard of these (cell lines) because they are connected with the COVID vaccines, but at that time I hadn’t. So I asked (my colleague) what ‘HEK’ stands for, and she told me, ‘Human Embryonic Kidney,”’ Acker said in an interview last month with LifeSite Editor-in-chief John-Henry Westen.

Acker said that it was after reading Dr. Alvin Wong’s paper titled “The Ethics of HEK 293” that appeared in the 2006 autumn issue of The National Catholic Bioethics Quarterly that she was able to arrive at some moral clarity on the issue.

Wong, an oncologist and senior consultant at Singapore’s National University Cancer Institute who has an interest in bioethics, wrote in his paper that due to evidence that the cells were “obtained from the embryo of a willfully induced abortion,” there is “a moral duty on the part of any researcher to discontinue using this cell line.”

“That moral duty should be particularly clear to Catholic researchers and institutions. Even if it may be extremely difficult to stop or modify the experiments in progress, an immediate cessation of the use of the cell line is the correct and just action to take,” Wong added.

Acker said that when she “expressed my concerns to my primary investigator, it ended up being the end of my career in his lab.”

The baby girl behind HEK-293

Acker explained to Westen during her January 12 interview the meaning behind the letters and numbers HEK 293, the cell line developed by Dr. Frank Graham in the Netherlands in 1973.

“HEK stands for Human Embryonic Kidney. But 293 stands for the 293rd experiment that this particular researcher did to develop the cell lines.”

The kidney was taken from a “completely normal” preborn girl aborted in 1972 who, according to Alex van der Eb, the doctor leading the team to develop the cell line, had “nothing wrong” with her.

Acker said at the time to Westen that there were likely more abortions behind the final development of the cell line since “for 293 experiments you need far more than one abortion.”

“We’re talking probably 100s of abortions,” she said at that time.

Graham, however, recently told Ian Jackson, who was conducting research in the HEK-293 cell line, that only one fetus was involved. 

“On my arrival at the University of Leiden in the Netherlands I kept lab books in which I numbered my experiments in the order in which I carried them out starting in 1970. None of these experiments used human embryo kidney cells (HEK) until very late in my studies in Leiden (1973) when I carried out 2 (two!) experiments that utilized kidney cells from 1 (one!) human fetus.” 

“Since abortion was illegal in the Netherlands at that time except to save the life of the mother I have always assumed that that fetus resulted from a therapeutic abortion. However, the kidney cells I used had been prepared and frozen away before I even arrived in Leiden. Consequently, I do not have first hand knowledge of the circumstances relating to that single abortion. The second of the two experiments I carried out with these HEK cells was experiment 293 and resulted in the cell line of the same name. The bottom line is that the 293 cell line resulted from cells obtained from a single fetus,” Graham told Jackson, who forwarded the doctor’s statement to LifeSite.

Acker told LifeSite for this report that Graham’s statement is “misleading at best.” 

“Dr. Plotkin tried to say something similar, that the cell lines involved in the creation of vaccines only came from two abortions. But that ignores the other 74 babies that were a part of the research he was doing. It’s published in the literature that other HEK and HER (human embryonic retina) cell lines are attributed to Frank Graham. So his research definitely involved more than one abortion.”  

“When a cell line is developed, it is usually produced using a sample of tissue from a single individual unless it’s a hybrid cell line. So on the one hand, it is technically correct to say that the cell line was developed using one aborted baby. However, this is not an accurate representation of how many lives were actually sacrificed in the whole process of developing an aborted fetal cell line,” she continued. 

“If Graham wasn’t just working on fetal cell lines during his time at the University of Leiden, it may not have been hundreds of abortions,” she added, “but we would need to see his notebooks to know.”

Acker pointed out that there is every indication that the cells were derived from an “electively aborted” baby. 

“In particular, the fact that the cells were stored in the freezer lends further credence to the conclusion that HEK-293 was derived from an electively aborted fetus,” she said.

“The success and longevity of HEK-293 suggests that the specimen was remarkably well-suited for culturing, and anyone who has studied cell theory should know that you cannot derive a living cell culture from tissue that is already dead.  Because of the biological impossibility of creating a live cell line from dead tissue, and the practical and biological implausibility of obtaining live tissue from a spontaneously miscarried fetus, it is far more likely that the baby from whom HEK-293 was derived was electively aborted and alive at the time of tissue extraction,” she added.

Acker quoted Dr. C. Ward Kischer, an embryologist and emeritus professor of anatomy from the University of Arizona College of Medicine, who stated the following regarding the cells obtained for aborted fetal cell lines: “In order to sustain 95% of the cells, the live tissue would need to be preserved within 5 minutes of the abortion […] within an hour the cells would continue to deteriorate, rendering the specimen useless.”

Acker said that if the baby used in the production of HEK-293 “had already been dead (through a natural miscarriage), the tissue would certainly have been of no use to Mr. Graham in making a cell line after it had been stored in a freezer.”

She speculated that the tissue from the baby used for the production of HEK-293 was likely procured by the surgical method of whole-fetus extraction, often referred to as a C-section abortion, which can include the removal of the uterus along with the living baby still inside.

Acker quoted a 1952 study from Dr. Thomas Weller and Dr. John Enders (among others), who were awarded the Nobel Prize in 1954 for their polio research involving growing cultures in various types of tissue, where they explained how “human embryonic tissues” were obtained for their experiments.

“This material was employed in most of the experiments. It was obtained under sterile precautions at the time of abdominal hysterotomy for therapeutic indications. Embryos of between 12 and 18 weeks’ gestation have been utilized. Rarely tissues were obtained from stillborn fetuses, or from premature infants at autopsy … In the experiments on prolonged propagation of virus, three sorts of embryonic materials were used: elements of skin, connective tissue, and muscle; intestinal tissue; brain tissue,” the researchers stated.

“Embryonic tissues were prepared in the following manner. Whenever possible the embryo was removed from the amniotic sac under sterile precautions, transferred to a sterile towel and kept at 5 C until dissected,” (bold added) they added.

Acker then quoted from Dr. Gonzalo Herranz, Professor of Histology and General Embryology at the University of Navarra, Spain, who described how abortions must be done to obtain uncontaminated fetal material in Italian scientist Pietro Croce’s book Vivisection or Science? first published in English in 1991.

“To obtain embryo cells, embryos from spontaneous abortions cannot be used, nor can those obtained by means of abortions performed via the vagina: in both cases, the embryo will be contaminated by micro-organisms,” wrote Herranz.

“The correct way consists in having recourse to Caesarian section or to the removal of the uterus. Only in this way can bacteriological sterility be guaranteed. In either case, then, to obtain embryo cells for culture, a programmed abortion must be adopted, choosing the age of the embryo and dissecting it while still alive to remove tissues to be placed in culture media,” (bold added) he added.

Commented Acker: “Because of the necessity of maintaining a sterile culture of tissue for developing a cell line, it seems reasonable to conclude that there would — at minimum — had to have been some pre-arrangement to obtain sterile, unmacerated tissue from the fetus used for HEK-293.  The easiest and surest way to do this is by the surgical method of whole-fetus extraction.”

Acker’s findings relate to the findings of U.S. pro-life investigator David Daleiden, who performed an undercover investigation of Planned Parenthood’s involvement in the illegal harvesting and trafficking of aborted baby body parts. Daleiden, who began to release videos of his sting operation in 2015, uncovered that biotech companies in the United States harvested numerous organs, including “live beating” hearts from aborted babies for research (see herehere, and here).

Multiple abortions behind various aborted fetal cell lines 

Acker told LifeSite for this report that the formation of other cell lines derived from aborted babies and used for research purposes and in the development of numerous vaccines involved hundreds of abortions.

“Many aborted fetal cell lines and all the aborted fetal cell lines used in currently licensed vaccines are the culmination of a series of experiments that include multiple abortions,” she said. Acker listed the following examples:

  • The WI-38 cell line (used in MMR and shingles vaccines) came from the 32nd aborted baby that was used in a series of experiments. Other cell lines that came out of the Wistar Institute include WI-26 (from the 20th aborted baby) and WI-44 cell (from the 38th aborted baby).
  • The MRC-5 line (used in hepatitis A, measles, and shingles vaccines) required five abortions to develop.
  • WALVAX2, the most recent aborted fetal cell line, came from the ninth aborted baby in a series.
  • RA273, which is the virus used in the rubella vaccine, originated in the 27thbaby that was aborted in search of the virus. Mothers who were infected with the rubella virus during pregnancy were actively encouraged to aborttheir children. Forty more elective abortions for rubella virus were performed after this, though RA273 was the strain that ended up in the final vaccine preparation.

Acker said that the use of aborted fetal cell lines in medical research, at any level, “fuels a growing acceptance of using aborted babies in other types of medical research.”

“This problem is irrespective of the original number of abortions performed to obtain a cell line, and will only be exacerbated by the acceptance of HEK-293-derived COVID vaccines,” she added.

‘New pro-life movement’

Kazakhstan Bishop Athanasius Schneider, during his presentation at today’s vaccine conference, called for the formation of a “new pro-life movement” that refuses to have anything to do with medicines or vaccines derived in one way or another from aborted babies.

Schneider said that until now, the pro-life movement has been “very meritorious” in raising a united voice against abortion. “But I think there now comes a new time, a new phase, a new period of all pro-life movements to protest, clearly and unambiguously, against abortion-tainted medicines, against the abuse of the body parts of the unborn.”

While the Catholic Church’s 2020 guidelines permit Catholics to receive abortion-tainted vaccines, the Bishop said that Christians cannot “simply resign” themselves to the fact that the production of various medicines is tied to the slaughter of preborn babies who are utilized for their body parts.

“The voice of the unborn children’s blood is crying to God from the abortion tainted vaccines, from the abortion tainted medicines,” he said. “This voice is crying all over the world, and we have to awaken.”

“No one who is really deeply concerned about the defense of life and the moral law can be silent or can be quiet and can resign to this situation,” he added.

See also: vaccine-expert-answers-critics-exposes-horrific-nature-of-abortion-tainted-vaccine-research

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21 Responses to Babies were aborted alive, placed in fridge to harvest cell lines used in some vaccines: researcher

  1. Pagan Idolatrous Human Sacrifice

    This article drives the point home as to why I was so offended and sickened by this Fraud Bergoglio saying that anyone working in the Vatican who refuses a COVID vaccination could very well lose their livelihood all of which was referenced in the previous article; “Vatican City State issues decree suggesting those who refuse COVID vaccine may lose their jobs” Originally posted on Catholicism Pure & Simple: SHUTTERSTOCK By Jeanne Smits, Paris correspondent VATICAN CITY, LifeSiteNews: The Vatican City State – the Holy See’s independent city state – recently issued a decree that includes COVID-19 vaccination among the measures its authorities can use in order to fight the current “public health emergency.”

    It’s totally unconscionable that a man like him considered by billions of people to be a figure of moral authority and knows what is right and wrong is advocating as I see it Human Sacrifice! In ancient pagan civilizations we know that say Mayans for example performed ritualistic human sacrifices of adults and babies to appease various gods or also to manipulate the people these leaders who to me were monsters; ruled over. In some of those sacrifices many times a victim was restrained prostrate over a sacrificial alter and while alive his heart would be carved out of the upper body cavity still beating via the upper abdomen with a knife.
    Now today in our so called civilized modern high tech world abortions are performed via caesarean section with the unborn baby still within the embryonic sac, is being taken for so called research purposes to create these live cell lines used for vaccines while still alive, then being placed in a refrigerator for anywhere from 1 to 24 hours at which point samples of cells are harvested; or it gets even more gruesome than this, because in many cases while the baby’s heart is still beating that heart is surgically removed without any anesthetic and like those ancient rituals where adult hearts were removed; here we have an innocent human baby being butchered, and sliced up in the same manner today in 2021! Some say it’s to save lives or advance science, to which I say that’s a load of crap; it’s always about the MONEY or Dirty Politics and Power today! To me the age of Freaking High Tech Blood-lust! If you aren’t as repulsed and sickened as I am by this absolute savagery and obvious Satanic Diabolical Evil that has permeated our societies and cultures throughout the world full of so many desensitized human zombies or walking trash receptacles, then you have a serious problem in my estimation and are a slave to antichrist promulgation that is absolutely already deeply embedded in our cultures and governments, not to mention even the Church now, which is condoning and promoting this path to perdition!

    I was always for the majority of my life from childhood up until the last dozen years a diehard eternal optimist. That changed dramatically, in recent years; though at heart I’ll always be one, but I have felt the sting of evil like never before in circumstances and mainly via people by which I would never have imagined that could happen; teaching me the hard lesson of not trusting just about anyone! Because this evil is powerful and has its tentacles throughout the world in all walks of life through all kinds of people!

    A point that needs to be mentioned here because the Plan-Demic COVID-19 virus has pushed this sort of fiendish research and development exponentially; meaning to me COVID is absolutely Diabolical in origin!

    “This problem is irrespective of the original number of abortions performed to obtain a cell line, and will only be exacerbated by the acceptance of HEK-293-derived COVID vaccines,” As stated quite correctly by Biologist Pamela Acker.

    In closing I will just quote these totally truthful words from the wise and just minded Bishop Athanasius Schneider from this article to just reemphasize what he said perfectly, where he points out how wicked all of this is, but he is able to contain his vernacular or personal sentiments way better than I ever will my own; and I know if I go on writing about this subject today I will end up saying so many things that I will probably regret later for being put so harshly even if justified! And I’m not about agitating or stirring up the pot as it were; but, I do want all of you with a clear conscience and contrite heart to think and pray for God’s intercession sooner rather than later, because; we are all on a hell ride whether we want to admit it or not! So sorry, see, I better go.

    God bless you. Amen.
    Lawrence Morra III
    Reblogged @ lawrencemorra.com Zero Lift-Off

    ‘New pro-life movement’
    “Kazakhstan Bishop Athanasius Schneider, during his presentation at today’s vaccine conference, called for the formation of a “new pro-life movement” that refuses to have anything to do with medicines or vaccines derived in one way or another from aborted babies.
    Schneider said that until now, the pro-life movement has been “very meritorious” in raising a united voice against abortion. “But I think there now comes a new time, a new phase, a new period of all pro-life movements to protest, clearly and unambiguously, against abortion-tainted medicines, against the abuse of the body parts of the unborn.”

    While the Catholic Church’s 2020 guidelines permit Catholics to receive abortion-tainted vaccines, the Bishop said that Christians cannot “simply resign” themselves to the fact that the production of various medicines is tied to the slaughter of preborn babies who are utilized for their body parts.”

    “The voice of the unborn children’s blood is crying to God from the abortion tainted vaccines, from the abortion tainted medicines,” he said.

    “This voice is crying all over the world, and we have to awaken.”

    “No one who is really deeply concerned about the defense of life and the moral law can be silent or can be quiet and can resign to this situation,” he added.

    Like

  2. Pingback: OH LOOK! LESS COVID CASES IN THOSE WHO TOOK THE VACCINE!!! (Plus even more sources on the vax) – Front Porch Catholic

  3. Brother Burrito says:

    Wow, I never thought 1Peter5 would come up with the goods, but here they are:

    https://onepeterfive.com/pro-life-catholic-philosopher-josef-seifert-speaks-out-on-coronavirus-vaccine/

    Liked by 2 people

  4. This is all a very fine line or tight-rope he walks with this assessment of partaking of a former crime for the greater good now. First these gene therapy vaccines in particular have not been properly tested over several years of intense trials and appropriate accompanying comprehensive studies to declare with certainty their safety and efficacy so the government and establishment has done nobody and favors here other than to cave into the globalists and elitist conspiracy now in motion, and in so doing establish a huge reason to distrust our governments who apparently don’t have or best interests a heart! Wrong is still wrong where I come from or should I say I won’t be hoodwinked by any rhetoric or credentialed officials trying to sell me a bill of goods! No way Jose! This whole scheme reeks with foul play and sinister intent! We already see many people dying or becoming very ill from the vaccines as well and nobody has a clue what the longer-term unintended consequences will be which I have a tendency to believe will come!

    Liked by 1 person

  5. johnhenrycn says:

    Regarding B. Buritto’s link to the article about Seifert where he (Seifert) is said to point out, citing another professor, Roberto de Mattei:
    “…the logical inconsistencies in rejecting the vaccines against COVID-19 while making use of other vaccines that are also produced with cell-lines derived from aborted children but required from many states since a century and accepted by almost all critics of the anti-corona-virus vaccines.”
    That’s something, if you can believe it, which I never knew. Now which older vaccines might those be that are derived from aborted children’s stem cell lines? Can you help me, Doctor?

    I’m still digesting the 1P5 piece, so perhaps everything will be made clearer later on. Ta.

    Like

  6. johnhenrycn says:

    Lawrence Morra replies to Dr Burrito:
    “…these gene therapy vaccines in particular have not been properly tested over several years of intense trials…”
    … an important point, since work on the COVID vaccine only started about a year ago.

    Another issue is whether gene therapy are even a vaccine and whether that matters one way or the other from a morally and informed perspective:
    https://www.globalresearch.ca/covid-19-vaccines-gene-therapy/5740003

    Like

  7. johnhenrycn says:

    From the 1P5 piece:
    Professor de Mattei examines thoroughly and convincingly the types and degrees of cooperation with evil, leading to a conclusion that it is untenable to consider the receiving of the vaccine today as cooperating in a crime that was committed years ago.

    Is that the criteria for accepting the manufacture and use of substances derived from abortions? Moral crimes are excusable if committed years ago?

    “[M]any commonly used medications, including antibiotics, insulin, or therapeutics for controlling high blood-pressure, are produced with fetal cell-lines”

    Derived from abortions? Is this true? Which Catholics knew that? Has Dr B always known that?

    “Logically, these vaccines can only be rejected on the grounds of being produced with fetal cell-lines if we also reject all commonly used medications produced in this way”.

    What is logical about two wrongs making a right?

    “De Mattei’s sound analysis explaining that it is neither obligatory nor possible to avoid all forms of material cooperation with evil is, I believe, essential.”

    He states a conclusion without convincing me and others that it actually is a sound one.

    ” Lack of consistency is also evident in taking the position that possible mandatory vaccination against COVID-19 is totalitarian, while accepting the mandatory vaccination of children against Polio…”

    (1) Is this guy for real? (2) Polio vaccination is universal but is it mandatory? (3) Is the polio vaccine derived from abortions? (4) Do parents who compel their children to undergo that procedure know that it is allegedly derived from abortions?

    “Moreover, God can draw good from evil.”
    What a cliché. What a joke. There are many Satanic thing that God has put to rights, but don’t try pinning those things on Him. The fruits of abortion are anathema. Always and forever Amen.
    ___
    I may spend more time reading Mattei’s contemptible argument when time allows. I’ve not yet decided whether to receive the inoculation he seeks to excuse and popularize. If I do, it won’t be on account of the specious reasoning set forth in 1P5.

    Liked by 2 people

  8. mmvc says:

    Thank you for your thoughts on this, JH.

    FWIW, the moral aspect of these jabs is very simple and uncomplicated for me and all the more so
    since having cradled my first tiny and beautiful newborn grandchild in my arms recently.

    It’s not just the amazing miracle and gift of her life that took my breath away as I gazed at her, but also that of every single human being wonderfully created and formed in the image and likeness of our loving Creator God!

    Call it a gut feeling if you like, but I will not knowingly take any jab that contains (however remotely) or has been tested on aborted babies’ cells!

    Liked by 1 person

  9. mmvc says:

    I agree with you too, Lawrence. There is not only the moral aspect to consider but also the experimental status of these Covid jabs.

    Like

  10. mmvc says:

    Here is some detailed information about the various vaccines tested or produced both with and without a cell line derived from an aborted child:

    https://cogforlife.org/vaccine-overview/

    Click to access vaccineListOrigFormat.pdf


    https://cogforlife.org/guidance/

    Liked by 1 person

  11. It’s morally unconscionable that this man forgoes all previous standards that were tried and proven to establish safety and efficacy of any substance to be injected into a human being. He lowers the human race to that of being no more than lab rats and that struck me in the face immediately, where as my mind and heart had been made up long ago about any material from an aborted human baby, child of God’s being capitalized on for any purpose; in essence a murdered innocent helpless human being, a most egregious sin even an abomination against God; so NOTHING, not this man or the man in the moon will change my mind, and more importantly my heart in this matter of the jab or anything else that utilized cell lines from murdered babies that are new or ancient; as being appropriate and morally acceptable by God! This whole movement is all obviously satanic; even having Chelsea Clinton jumping in to meet the fraud Bergoglio at his big powwow, she and her wicked parents huge advocates of full term abortion! “Know them by their fruits!”

    It’s so easy to see what is going on here this man Roberto de Mattei is an agent of Satan just like the man who calls himself the current Pope, as they twist and concoct the truth mingled with their dark lies seeking to bamboozle as many of the flock of faithful as they can! This evil has control of the MSM and much of the Big Tech social media for one purpose! It’s a foregone conclusion as far as I’m concerned that we are facing “hell on earth” in the making and the antichrist is in the wings waiting to take the seat of Saint Peter and then God! So taking the jab is only the beginning of allegiance; and many are falling for it or giving in as even people I know have taken the tainted abomination into their bodies, leaving one to ask what else will they take or accept in due course! Nothing to figure out at all; and those that won’t accept the truth staring them in their faces are either rebellious or too afraid to die for Jesus, which I’m not; because I’ll take a bullet or any death that is required of me to resist this and all evil that is moving quickly now to swallow this world in short order. It is plain as day to me, we can see the pieces of the puzzle around the globe being orchestrated toward this “new world order construct” which is as I said hell on earth where anything will go, anything unholy that is; and those of us who are not of that mindset will be persecuted and murdered; just like the innocent helpless martyrs of the womb have been and are by the countless millions!

    This evil Man of Perdition Biden that this high on his pedestal fraud antichrist promoter Bergoglio also promoted to be the President of the United States of America, the former Republic under God which it is not anymore; just appropriated about a half trillion dollars to provide abortions here and anywhere America can assist which is a sign in itself that he is the Devil’s own looking to attack as many of the unborn as possible and destroy them mocking God in the process! This is all so academic and there is nothing to figure out! Two plus Two still equals Four! Wash your robes and be on your knees daily praying for Jesus Christ to please return sooner rather than later; while in the meantime I will be ready to die in any fashion for Jesus Christ! I had said as much to major authorities in my locale high ranking ones, who are deeply Deep State Democrat Cronies, some actual minions of hell, and I don’t care what they think about me, I fear nothing they can do to me; NOTHING!

    I fear only the Lord our God in heaven, and, whether I will be found worthy of His Salvation; nothing else in creation matters to me! I’m here for God Almighty’s purposes; this fallen world offers nothing that matters in the end!
    End of discussion!

    God bless you.
    Brother in Christ Jesus,
    Lawrence

    Like

  12. The Abomination and Massacre of The Innocent


    To refresh or revise our memories is always important!

    Like

  13. Brother Burrito says:

    Thank goodness COVID cannot be caught from, or passed on via, this website. However, the well intentioned but unwise emoting above can influence badly those who look here for leadership on the VITAL PUBLIC HEALTH MATTER of vaccination.

    While all of you commenting above have responded with admirable defence of your long expressed opinions and legitimate investment in ideology, not one of you has given a single argument from moral theology to counter either Professor Mattei nor Professor Seifert. I thought I’d just point that out, since the central argument is one of moral theology, and the Pope’s position as expressed in December 2020 is the same, i.e. this is the CATHOLIC teaching on the matter.

    Liked by 2 people

  14. mmvc says:

    Defending the life of the unborn in the context of vaccines developed with and tested on foetal cell lines is hardly ’emoting’.

    However your introductory remark is utterly puerile.

    Btw, this too is Church teaching on the issue of abortion tainted vaccines: https://www.immunize.org/talking-about-vaccines/vaticandocument.htm

    Application to the use of vaccines prepared from cells coming from embryos or foetuses aborted voluntarily

    …there are three categories of people who are involved in the cooperation in evil, evil which is obviously represented by the action of a voluntary abortion performed by others: a) those who prepare the vaccines using human cell lines coming from voluntary abortions; b) those who participate in the mass marketing of such vaccines; c) those who need to use them for health reasons.

    Firstly, one must consider morally illicit every form of formal cooperation (sharing the evil intention) in the action of those who have performed a voluntary abortion, which in turn has allowed the retrieval of foetal tissues, required for the preparation of vaccines. Therefore, whoever – regardless of the category to which he belongs — cooperates in some way, sharing its intention, to the performance of a voluntary abortion with the aim of producing the above-mentioned vaccines, participates, in actuality, in the same moral evil as the person who has performed that abortion. Such participation would also take place in the case where someone, sharing the intention of the abortion, refrains from denouncing or criticizing this illicit action, although having the moral duty to do so (passive formal cooperation).

    In a case where there is no such formal sharing of the immoral intention of the person who has performed the abortion, any form of cooperation would be material, with the following specifications.

    As regards the preparation, distribution and marketing of vaccines produced as a result of the use of biological material whose origin is connected with cells coming from foetuses voluntarily aborted, such a process is stated, as a matter of principle, morally illicit, because it could contribute in encouraging the performance of other voluntary abortions, with the purpose of the production of such vaccines. Nevertheless, it should be recognized that, within the chain of production-distribution-marketing, the various cooperating agents can have different moral responsibilities.

    However, there is another aspect to be considered, and that is the form of passive material cooperation which would be carried out by the producers of these vaccines, if they do not denounce and reject publicly the original immoral act (the voluntary abortion), and if they do not dedicate themselves together to research and promote alternative ways, exempt from moral evil, for the production of vaccines for the same infections. Such passive material cooperation, if it should occur, is equally illicit.

    As regards those who need to use such vaccines for reasons of health, it must be emphasized that, apart from every form of formal cooperation, in general, doctors or parents who resort to the use of these vaccines for their children, in spite of knowing their origin (voluntary abortion), carry out a form of very remote mediate material cooperation, and thus very mild, in the performance of the original act of abortion, and a mediate material cooperation, with regard to the marketing of cells coming from abortions, and immediate, with regard to the marketing of vaccines produced with such cells. The cooperation is therefore more intense on the part of the authorities and national health systems that accept the use of the vaccines.

    However, in this situation, the aspect of passive cooperation is that which stands out most. It is up to the faithful and citizens of upright conscience (fathers of families, doctors, etc.) to oppose, even by making an objection of conscience, the ever more widespread attacks against life and the “culture of death” which underlies them. From this point of view, the use of vaccines whose production is connected with procured abortion constitutes at least a mediate remote passive material cooperation to the abortion, and an immediate passive material cooperation with regard to their marketing. Furthermore, on a cultural level, the use of such vaccines contributes in the creation of a generalized social consensus to the operation of the pharmaceutical industries which produce them in an immoral way.

    Therefore, doctors and fathers of families have a duty to take recourse to alternative vaccines (if they exist), putting pressure on the political authorities and health systems so that other vaccines without moral problems become available. They should take recourse, if necessary, to the use of conscientious objection with regard to the use of vaccines produced by means of cell lines of aborted human foetal origin. Equally, they should oppose by all means (in writing, through the various associations, mass media, etc.) the vaccines which do not yet have morally acceptable alternatives, creating pressure so that alternative vaccines are prepared, which are not connected with the abortion of a human foetus, and requesting rigorous legal control of the pharmaceutical industry producers.

    So you go ahead and get all the jabs and boosters you feel you require to be ‘safe’ and protected from SARS-CoV-2. But kindly respect those who choose not to do so, for whatever reason. Even if it is because they feel in good conscience that these experimental gene therapies are morally dubious.

    Liked by 1 person

  15. johnhenrycn says:

    Well, for my part and regarding only myself, I’m compelled to agree with Burrito to the extent of saying that I was mostly “emoting”, as I now read my last comment from yesterday in the light of today. I do not now consider that comment a very persuasive or incisive one. All this means to me, however, is that I need to up my game and take more time and make a better argument next time. When all is said and done, the people urging us to vaccinate are misguided. I’m not convinced otherwise, and it is for the proponents of jabbing people to convince me otherwise, unless they are at the point of forcing me to do otherwise.
    ___
    Got to go now. Father has just phoned me to discuss a problem (not a moral or theological one I hope) and I have to go to the rectory 🙂

    Liked by 4 people

  16. “in response to Catholicism Pure & Simple:
    February 19, 2021, LifeSiteNews: Cell lines derived from aborted babies used in the production or testing of various vaccines, including a number of COVID vaccines, most likely came from babies who were aborted alive, and according to the general practice as outlined in medical literature, may have been placed in a fridge while still living where they […]

    Useful reading for people determined to cause a continuing health crisis:”

    An artificial, manufactured and exploited to the hilt exaggerated health crisis; one in which nursing homes were flooded with acute highly contagious covid patients from hospitals to make certain the vulnerable elderly were infected, to KILL them off to boost numbers which were further skewed by adding annual flu or just about any death during the period as caused by covid for the narrative of an extremely high mortality rate to justify lock-downs, coming vaccines and masks; this killing is just like Aborted Human beings from the womb are Killed; or shall we say it like it is, Murdered! We now have a modern society that is “murdering” “sacrificing” as a rule of thumb with no conscience; and this is all Diabolical; do you hear me!

    Let’s stop trying to kid ourselves or anyone; the human race is quite evil now and getting exponentially worse by the day!
    Stop trying to ride some wave of I have something to say and in doing so justifying or ignoring the underlying matter of truth, which is the whole Plan-Demic is a globally orchestrated diabolical event, while the most guilty of causing it are walking free without consequence; even being put on pedestals like New York’s Governor Cuomo or Michigan’s Whitmer for their crimes; an upside down civilization!
    “What was wrong will be right and what was right will be wrong!” You’re missing the point with all of this continuing rhetoric or trying to split hairs about what some bureaucrats or doctors are saying! Forget them all! Go pray!

    Liked by 1 person

  17. None of what I’ve said points to or validates “Conspiracy Theories” because it’s all true and fact which can be found if someone is really looking for the Truth! I know some of these things firsthand from right in my own ugly corrupted State which is playing ball with the Agenda!

    Liked by 1 person

  18. Excellent offer of good added insight mmvc! There will be many long term consequences along with unintended ones too for going along as an immoral people with a lie! This is how Hitler and the Gestapo with its propaganda minister Goebbels seduced massive numbers of citizens to participate with an atrocity; just how else could Jews be sent to ovens? It’s probably far too late is my point, the human race is infested with diabolical evil now from stem to stern, the brainwashing and conditioning has been long and deep! And multitudes have only a pagan mindset! No awakening will change the course of humanity now! Thank you for caring.

    Like

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